Soldato
i see what you did there!
Cycle RAGE!!!!!
- Thread starter Tek81
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Soldato
Yes it is. It's just another common use misnomer.
Do you get the vacuum cleaner out or is it the hoover?
When computing on the go you use a laptop right? Nope, notebook.
You're just being pendantic and almost child-like.
Man of Honour
No, like I say, the myth that cyclists don't pay your mythical road tax is the reason why most motorists are nasty towards cyclists and probably the reason why you are acting as you are.
One fellow cyclist was having that argument with one of the women today at work when she was having a go at him.
He then pointed at Jackie who pays zero vehicle tax so it is not a tax for the road.
I find it funny that one poster above wants the DVLA to spend millions on cyclists paying zero vehicle tax (I mean mythical road tax).
He's right to be pedantic, because it seems many people still think that "road tax" is just that - a tax that anyone using the roads should pay. And they use that flawed reasoning as a justification for the attitude that because they pay it and cyclists don't, somehow they have more 'right' to be there. As if paying "road tax" equates to some special priority when using the highway over those who do not. No such thing exists, and I hope it never does.
For most people it's a misnomer we use when we know it's actually VED, yes, but there are still idiots around who can't see past the colloquialism.
Including the DVLA: https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-tax
But even there, it's referred to as "vehicle tax", not "road tax".
We all know what this means, but the distinction is important when you still hear people arguing "why should people be on the roads if they aren't paying road tax".
Man of Honour
Put way better than I could.
I bet every cyclist on here has had the 'road tax' argument thrown at them multiple times.
And I also bet many of the non pedants simply say "you probably mean vehicle tax rather than road tax but I know what you're getting at, rather than the frothy mouthed lycra zealot response!
When SexyGreyFox says "had the 'road tax' argument thrown at them multiple times", in my experience it's usually in the form of pulling up at a set of traffic lights and hearing: "*horn blast* get the **** off the road you don't even pay road tax *middle finger stuck up out of window after a close pass when the lights go green*". That gets real old, real fast, and I don't think it's unfair to say that being subjected to that for doing absolutely nothing wrong would get anyone's back up. Thus, correcting people online that it's an emissions based tax that doesn't fully fund the roads is aimed at educating people what the tax actually is and why it's irrelevant that cyclists aren't enrolled in such a scheme, but yes, I can see how it can come across a bit pedantic at times.
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Caporegime
A moped reduces congestion just as much as a bike so your only points are it is cheaper and is "good for the environment". A moped might be more costly to run but I would value my time a lot more as a Moped is quicker and I much rather not arrive at work in a bucket of sweat. Saying that some bikes cost more than mopeds and to tax and insure one is not much more than £200 a year. That's a paltry £17 a month. Luckily I live in the countryside and my commute is only 15 minutes so have no need for either anyway!
Man of Honour
I'd look stupid in lycra, today I'm in a Ghost t-shirt and cargo shorts.
And you are responding exactly like a motorist who yells road tax.
What you're not getting is that a motorist wouldn't shout vehicle tax because they would know what it is.
It's the idiots who shout road tax because they think they pay something extra.
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You must have done something to upset him without realising. I know it's not hard to set some people off, but generally people don't go round causing criminal damage for no reason.
Soldato
Have we had a video yet?
Soldato
Yes it's annoying to be stuck behind a cyclist but it's the same as getting stuck behind other slow moving vehicles, as long as they respect road rules I'm fine. Yes there are some idiot cyclists but there are idiot vehicle users as well. One thing I think they should require though is insurance if they cycle on the road.
I have to say in my 30 odd years cycling I've never once had an idiot motorist yell anything to do with road tax nor has it ever come up in any discussions I've had. Only ever hear about it on the internet.
Then again I'm one of those "idiot cyclists" who will pull over and let traffic pass me as I hate the idea that 1 person is causing inconvenience to many others...
Man of Honour
I do exactly the same and sometimes mount the pavement because of it however in another thread where I admitted to helping motorists to get past I was then told off by an idiot motorist for doing it.
We can't win because he basically wants cyclists off the road because we don't pay for them.
Generally slow moving vehicles I've encountered are doing atleast twice the speed of a cyclist - often 30-40MPH in NSL, etc. some cyclists are barely doing walking pace up steep hills of which there are plenty on my normal routes :s
But on the flipside they're much easier to pass. I'd honestly rather come up behind a cyclist doing 10-15mph, because generally, I won't be there for more than 30-60 seconds, whilst I plan a safe pass. Whereas encountering a truck/caravan/artic/tractor/elderly member for the '40MPH-everywhere brigade' generally means miles of frustration waiting for the rarer opportunity to pass a larger, faster vehicle than a person on a bike. In my own experience, it's always these "slow" vehicles which present the most significant obstacle, far more than cyclists.
To clarify then seeing as it is correctly vehicle excise duty, the majority commonly refer to it as road tax, vehicle tax or road fund license, probably most often just called tax as it is simpler to say in conversation and mostly understood and not corrected by the non-pedantic!
Interestingly taken from a UK cycling forum, "A bicycle is a vehicle according to the UN's 1968 Vienna Convention on Road Traffic. The UK is a signatory of this convention". Based on that, does it mean there should be some sort of VED, even if it is £0.00, the same as electric vehicles? would have course mean registering them and declaring SORN when not in use, I guess that would then make insurance compulsory requirement and add stupid amounts of bureaucracy to the entire system in turn increasing admin work and associated costs which would be passed on to those that have to pay. I wonder also if there should be a £55 first registration fee!?
As stated by Conscript, I completely agree with this a lot of larger vehicles are difficult to overtake for two reasons, the visibility is reduced making finding a safe space to overtake harder, but also because the speed they travel at is closer to that of the car. Sometimes overtaking them is pointless as I could overtake and end up one car in front of them at traffic lights rather than one car behind, so very little is often gained, the same can be said also of cyclists if there are frequent sets of traffic lights, but I'd rather be doing legally the NSL rather than 10-15mph. It is handy when cyclists pull over to let a stream of traffic by on some roads. The trouble is that it is the same for cyclists and motorists, one bad experience can taint their view of all cyclists or motorists. The helmet cam cyclists tend to be the worst offenders in hating the car, but could this be because they had an incident where an idiot in a car nearly killed them, as such they have the helmet cam to prove that others are the helmet and not them.
Interestingly taken from a UK cycling forum, "A bicycle is a vehicle according to the UN's 1968 Vienna Convention on Road Traffic. The UK is a signatory of this convention". Based on that, does it mean there should be some sort of VED, even if it is £0.00, the same as electric vehicles? would have course mean registering them and declaring SORN when not in use, I guess that would then make insurance compulsory requirement and add stupid amounts of bureaucracy to the entire system in turn increasing admin work and associated costs which would be passed on to those that have to pay. I wonder also if there should be a £55 first registration fee!?
As stated by Conscript, I completely agree with this a lot of larger vehicles are difficult to overtake for two reasons, the visibility is reduced making finding a safe space to overtake harder, but also because the speed they travel at is closer to that of the car. Sometimes overtaking them is pointless as I could overtake and end up one car in front of them at traffic lights rather than one car behind, so very little is often gained, the same can be said also of cyclists if there are frequent sets of traffic lights, but I'd rather be doing legally the NSL rather than 10-15mph. It is handy when cyclists pull over to let a stream of traffic by on some roads. The trouble is that it is the same for cyclists and motorists, one bad experience can taint their view of all cyclists or motorists. The helmet cam cyclists tend to be the worst offenders in hating the car, but could this be because they had an incident where an idiot in a car nearly killed them, as such they have the helmet cam to prove that others are the helmet and not them.
The main difference on the roads I'm on is that with a cyclist you have better visibility - in terms of passing it doesn't make much difference on these twisty roads unless you just brush past them barely moving over. The problem for me isn't the odd cyclist though it is that at peak times there seems to be an increased number of both cyclists and vehicles these days and if you catch it unlucky it gets a bit silly.
I'm actually quite tolerant personally getting behind farm traffic or bigger lorries, etc. as atleast they are making reasonable progress for what they are - while the 40 MPH everywhere brigade drive me up the wall - but they are usually far worse drivers than farm traffic, etc. making far more unpredictable moves, stopping for no apparent reason, etc.
I'm still annoyed at one of the 40 MPH brigade from a few days back - pulled out right infront of me though there was no traffic behind me, didn't get going then got funny because inevitably I got quite close behind them through their own action.
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