Campaigners have called for the government to scrap the two-child limit on benefits

[FoxEye]

How about you emigrate to a place where that already happens? Then you can leave the UK to those of us who have more compassion.



YOU don't pay for it, we all do. It's called being a member of society. Plenty of other countries that don't have this social safety net, I'm sure they'd be happy to welcome you with open arms.

Fag packet maths/thinking aloud. Undoubtedly wrong in my sums.

So roughly 1/4 of the population will be 0-20 at any given time. Meaning each person has to pay for 1/3 of a child in their lifetime, on average? Assuming the average cost of raising a child is 100k. That's 30k per person to raise the children collectively, if each person shared the cost equally.

Doesn't sound right but I have no idea how to calculate this (as you can clearly see!)

This will be skewed downwards by the really high earners. But are we all spending close to two year's (net) wages raising the kids, even if we don't have any of our own?

Probably not; would be interested to know what the per-person contribution is tho.

 

[413x]

Think cap should be at one.
Id rather money be re directed to those who don't have a choice.
Reduce child benefits and put it towards NHS, disability allowance (genuine)
Most people choose to have kids, it's rare people chose to have a disability

 

[413x]

Mmm.

Maybe you should check up on Japan.

Within our lifetimes the **** may hit the fan in an industrial manner regarding their birthrate. Replacing hundreds of schools with care homes because of the demands for each is an ominous thing.

The same thing would happen with any population control that involves choking the birthrate but not reducing the existing population. Increasingly large proportion of the population will frankly, be old.

By the same token of we. Keep increasing population we will destroy the world But then that's already inevitable, so crack on.

Unfortunately our society requires a bottom heavy population demographic in its current state.

So we're buggered either way

 

[FoxEye]

Only one person knows. I don't know why you're arguing for him when you're not that person.

I took a neutral position. Because these things aren't binary, questioning a hostile position is not automatically lending support for a supportive position.

It's merely questioning a hostile position. Another poster asserted that he was a hypocrite and I asked how he could be sure. I wasn't advocating that he is or he isn't.

So perhaps your criticism of me is unwarranted.

 

[The_Abyss]

I took a neutral position. Because these things aren't binary, questioning a hostile position is not automatically lending support for a supportive position.

It's merely questioning a hostile position. Another poster asserted that he was a hypocrite and I asked how he could be sure. I wasn't advocating that he is or he isn't.

So perhaps your criticism of me is unwarranted.

Perhaps your view failed to consider to contradictions in the original posts and instead focussed too much on the response to them and, in doing so, assumed that the position was hostile. It could reasonable be argued instead that the contradictory responses were defensive and your position is therefore defensive and hostile.

Either way, you're far from neutral as you've already exhibited your opinions on this topic several times in this thread, and then added colour in sharing your opinions of those who do not agree with you.

You asked how he could be sure that the OP was a hypocrite. The insinuation was clear, but the respondent is the only one who can address it, but that didn't stop you having a go anyway despite your assertion that you weren't advocating either position.

 

[diamount]

I've got 2 kids, where is all this money I'm meant to be getting? How do I apply!

Your HR department for a raise.

 

[5punk3monk3y]

Disagree, A family down the road on benefits 2 adults and 2 children went to a gig on Saturday night @ £50 a ticket then they stayed in the Celtic Manor for two nights before travelling over to Euro Disney for a week.

Then on benefitsbook every day I see these Day1 etc posts again from people on benefits they seem to be off to a theme park or butlins or at the local kiddie adventure which I couldn't dream of affording every day of the holidays.

Its amazing how the other half live.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

My family crawled up from the very bottom...

...I worked my ass off in school/uni...despite a chronic illness (UC) in my second year i got my degree

...Me and my family now own several properties

Don't you realise you've been a drain on this country most of your life? In the eyes of the perfect in this thread, you're probably still not a "net contributor".

The benefits system exists to help people like you to become the person you are.
Now that you're on your feet, you're looking down your nose at those that weren't so fortunate. It amazes me how people can't seem to join the dots with this, particularly people like you who really should know better.

 

[Diddums]

Don't you realise you've been a drain on this country most of your life? In the eyes of the perfect in this thread, you're probably still not a "net contributor".

The benefits system exists to help people like you to become the person you are.
Now that you're on your feet, you're looking down your nose at those that weren't so fortunate. It amazes me how people can't seem to join the dots with this, particularly people like you who really should know better.

This is GD though, where most people have this little framework in their lives which must be the same as everyone else's framework, and if it isn't then the machine stops and everything breaks, adopting the sheldoncooperface.gif. I've gotta admit, some people in this thread really do no good for my faith in humanity.

These also tend to be the same people who give me the impression that the majority of their lives is reclusive with not much human interaction at all. Social skills of a brick, you can spot them a mile away ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Anyway, that's enough misery for a Friday, here's a video of a drumming apple that's been inhabited by the spirit of a dead cat:

 

[200sols]

My family crawled up from the very bottom and came to this country in the 70's without a penny to their name, our first TV was a black and white 14" portable on a dining chair. They installed a sense of the no ones to do anything for you apart from you, my dad worked two jobs, 6 days a week and my mum work from home as a seamstress. That's why I worked my ass off in school/uni and endured bullying because i was a nerd/geek. But now i'm laughing about it while they have to go through life eating hand to mouth because they'd rather mess around in class and working dead-end jobs instead of taking it seriously. I didn't have the privilege to go to a private school but I got the best grades anyway from that crappy school by home studying and went on to Uni to study Physics and despite a chronic illness (UC) in my second year i got my degree.

I worked my ******* fingers to the bone while having zero privileges and battling serious health issues but now i can say it was all worth it. I have security in life now thanks to it and i can say i'm genuinely happy. Me and my family now own several properties and my and my wife have a trading business between us as well as working in the city. Sorry for the rant but going through what i went through it makes me burn when others had better chances in life and had money thrown at them by the state, especially the ******** in my classes that had the exact same chances and opportunities as had but blame their situation on everyone else and not themselves. Wasting a crap ton of money on everything else apart from making their situation better.

So you were happy to be a drain on the system while it was helping you and treating your illness, but now you have turned into a resentful person it seems looking down on everyone below as trash. Odd that you hate the system that made you all your money so much really.

 

[Dis86]

You know one can happen before the other, right? Also, you have to recognise it isn't always a choice having kids - no contraception bar abstinence is 100% effective. Our third child was a total surprise - snuck in before I had the opportunity to "get done once and for all".

Christ on a bike, the lack of empathy displayed by some posters is astonishing.

A child doesn't sneak in. My mate just had his 2nd. He had the ole snippy snip booked in before the kid was even born with the actual event taking place just after the birth.
Nothing stopping others doing the same when the operation is free on the NHS with incredibly short waiting times. If you can't keep your penis in your pants in the meantime that's on you.

 

[malachi]

Disagree, A family down the road on benefits 2 adults and 2 children went to a gig on Saturday night @ £50 a ticket then they stayed in the Celtic Manor for two nights before travelling over to Euro Disney for a week.

Then on benefitsbook every day I see these Day1 etc posts again from people on benefits they seem to be off to a theme park or butlins or at the local kiddie adventure which I couldn't dream of affording every day of the holidays.

Its amazing how the other half live.

I hear about this all the time but I very rarely see it. People get annoyed by this but I'm like why? I don't, I get to go abroad every few months, buy nice toys when I want, not in debt or financially struggling, got a good job.

When they have poor health due to bad habits, their free council house is full of damp and smells of animal feces. Christmas presents are from 2nd hand shops.

So let them carry on with their once in a blue moon crappy "holiday" to Bultins. Euro Disney.....ok cool. I heard its the worse one to visit out of all of them so it doesn't beat Disney Land Tokyo which I have visited.

They never be on the same level playing field as many of us here in life, no matter what it looks like on the outside.

 

[bigmike20vt]

Fag packet maths/thinking aloud. Undoubtedly wrong in my sums.

So roughly 1/4 of the population will be 0-20 at any given time. Meaning each person has to pay for 1/3 of a child in their lifetime, on average? Assuming the average cost of raising a child is 100k. That's 30k per person to raise the children collectively, if each person shared the cost equally.

Doesn't sound right but I have no idea how to calculate this (as you can clearly see!)

This will be skewed downwards by the really high earners. But are we all spending close to two year's (net) wages raising the kids, even if we don't have any of our own?

Probably not; would be interested to know what the per-person contribution is tho.

Well I will agree that kids are damn expensive... 1 thing tho .... Most of us -even if we take child allowances into account- do pay the vast majority ourselves. I have no idea of the exact percentages but the amount paid by non children "owners" is far far less than those of us who have kids. It is easy to forget in threads like this (and I am as guilty as others) that the daily mail headline types , whilst they do exist, are a minority of people. Most of us are much more positive on society and do mostly support our own kids even if we take a little help

I actually need to sort my finances out. For the last 2.5 years I haven't been collecting the benefits I am due. Part of me feels guilty doing it because as a kid I have lived in close to poverty and I am a million miles from that now (I earn an ok , not huge , amount but where my wife and I do well is that we don't have a primary earner we both earn within a couple of grand of each other and both split parental duties . (Both do 4 long days a week and take a day off each to cut down on nursery costs to 3 days a week and have a day doing stuff with the lad.

This actually is far more effective than having 1 primary earner on say 50k and one earning far less.

I do remember however my mum and I hiding behind the sofa when the coalman came for his money and clearing woodland with my dad for a farmer with payment being logs for the fire, as well as my dad and I working as farm hands so dad was allowed to go shooting on his land so we had meat for the week etc (I was driving a tractor from 5 with blocks on pedals)
As a family we did all work our asses off to get out of the rut (with help from the government) which is why I do support government aid to help people but it is damn depressing when you see people using the support as a long term life style.

I too don't know how they manage it either. My ex wife from hull many of her friends in their 30s had never worked a proper job and yet when I went to visit family they would have better phones than me and be off to the pub and waiting outside the bookies for it to open when I had a full time job and yet could not afford to go out. :/

Again tho as I said need to remember those types are a minority

 

[FoxEye]

Perhaps your view failed to consider to contradictions in the original posts and instead focussed too much on the response to them and, in doing so, assumed that the position was hostile. It could reasonable be argued instead that the contradictory responses were defensive and your position is therefore defensive and hostile.

Either way, you're far from neutral as you've already exhibited your opinions on this topic several times in this thread, and then added colour in sharing your opinions of those who do not agree with you.

You asked how he could be sure that the OP was a hypocrite. The insinuation was clear, but the respondent is the only one who can address it, but that didn't stop you having a go anyway despite your assertion that you weren't advocating either position.

More mental gymnastics to show that black is white and white is black. "If you're not with us, you're against us." It's a very common attitude on here.

 

[wnb]

I have two children. I am also in a job and my wife is a nurse...lets say something horrible happens to one of us and we have to quit work.

Are you saying I or my wife shouldnt get benefits?

Why is it people lump it all in one bracket....as if everyone out of work is "workshy".

Just wow, big assumption their unless you and I think workshy means something totally different. Workshy for me is someone who does not want to work and would rather sit back and claim benefits. Benefits which are paid for by the workers.

 

[AhhBisto]

I 100% agree there should be a cap on children it doesn't make sense to have people paid for childbirth, no one wants baby factories.

However some of the replies here are damn ridiculous, people on benefits don't always have a choice. And not everyone can work in any capacity.

My partner was diagnosed with a condition that will eventually take her mind and life last year. She can no longer work, drive and needs me by her and our daughters side 24/7. Whilst we do make it work, I had an excellent supportive employer and most of my skills we're technical and graphic based. However there is no way I could work away from home, and my previous employer refused to put me in that position knowing someone in her family with that condition. We're still waiting after nearly a year for her disability benefit, not so we can take advantage of the system but so we can get access to the support she needs. You can't even get a bus pass without it.

There are plenty of people in the same groups as us that are far worse off because benefits don't seem to cover basic life needs with people in care.

And then there's families who have been on the system for years getting far more then anyone joining it now.

It's not a fair system but it's one that needs to be in place because there are people who didn't ask to be out of work and starving.

 

[Roar87]

I 100% agree there should be a cap on children it doesn't make sense to have people paid for childbirth, no one wants baby factories.

However some of the replies here are damn ridiculous, people on benefits don't always have a choice. And not everyone can work in any capacity.

My partner was diagnosed with a condition that will eventually take her mind and life last year. She can no longer work, drive and needs me by her and our daughters side 24/7. Whilst we do make it work, I had an excellent supportive employer and most of my skills we're technical and graphic based. However there is no way I could work away from home, and my previous employer refused to put me in that position knowing someone in her family with that condition. We're still waiting after nearly a year for her disability benefit, not so we can take advantage of the system but so we can get access to the support she needs. You can't even get a bus pass without it.

There are plenty of people in the same groups as us that are far worse off because benefits don't seem to cover basic life needs with people in care.

And then there's families who have been on the system for years getting far more then anyone joining it now.

It's not a fair system but it's one that needs to be in place because there are people who didn't ask to be out of work and starving.

I don't think anyone's judging people in your position, the thread is about people choosing to have more than 2 children, not people being put in bad circumstance through no fault of their own

 

[Shadowness]

....

As above, hopefully the majority of people, myself included, have no issue with the system in instances like this.

My issue is with people who have children, and instantly expect money to be thrown at them, despite the fact they are perfectly capable of working. Of even if they work, still expect money to help with the costs.

 

[d_brennen]

As above, hopefully the majority of people, myself included, have no issue with the system in instances like this.

My issue is with people who have children, and instantly expect money to be thrown at them, despite the fact they are perfectly capable of working. Of even if they work, still expect money to help with the costs.

In-work benefits just show that people cannot earn enough to live in certain circumstances, yet big business like Amazon are allowed to basically enslave people. I believe that if you work full time at anything, you should expect to be able to afford to at least live a basic life without handouts.

 

[Shadowness]

I believe that if you work full time at anything, you should expect to be able to afford to at least live a basic life without handouts.

Exactly. But if you choose to have a child, it's not right that other people should help pay for that, if said child would mean you struggle more to live your basic life.

If you are just about coping, and you went and got a new car on finance, should everyone suddenly chip in and help with the repayments?

(*I know a car and a human life are slightly different circumstances, but the basic argument is exactly the same)