Beggers in Leeds

B@Th*nG said:
You don't need the statistics from 2010 - There literally aren't enough E.U migrants sleeping rough NOW to account for a 165% increase, even if there were ZERO in 2010 and all 1700~ rough sleepers at the time were British. Jesus wept, how many different ways do you need me to say it?

I'm ignoring your Tory stuff because you haven't read the link properly so what's the point.

B@
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Let's remind ourselves what you actually said before..

B@Th*nG said:
So there's been a 165% increase in the last 10 years of migrant beggars? hahahaha yeah alright - You sound ridiculous.
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Its very possible there has been a far larger increase then 165% in the amount of migrant beggars in the past 10 years as we know the figues went up sharply in the last two years we have figures (and don't have official figures for before that). We know that central/ eastern European rough sleepers currently make up a massively disproportionate amount of rough sleepers and that they have only had free movement in the UK since their countries joined the EU in the 2000's.

You can't use 'Tory cuts' to explain why the amount of European rough sleepers went up by a bit under 50% (and this was massively more that the increse for non eu beggars in the same time) in the last two years we have figures for during a time when overall eu migration was decreasing as a result of a vote to leave the EU.

The number of migrants rough sleepers in 2010 would only have to be 396 for there to be 1048 in 2018 with a 165% increase in their numbers in that time period.
 
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amigafan2003 said:
Ivory tower? Yeah sure, I'll think about that the next time I'm assisting my local homeless charities.
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Caracus2k said:
Let's remind ourselves what you actually said before..

Its very possible there has been a far larger increase then 165% in the amount of migrant beggars in the past 10 years as we know the figues went up sharply in the last two years we have figures (and don't have official figures for before that). We know that central/ eastern European rough sleepers currently make up a massively disproportionate amount of rough sleepers and that they have only had free movement in the UK since their countries joined the EU in the 2000's.

You can't use 'Tory cuts' to explain why the amount of European rough sleepers went up by a bit under 50% (and this was massively more that the increse for non eu beggars in the same time) in the last two years we have figures for during a time when overall eu migration was decreasing as a result of a vote to leave the EU.

The number of migrants rough sleepers in 2010 would only have to be 396 for there to be 1048 in 2018 with a 165% increase in their numbers in that time period.
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Ohh come off it, my initial statement was that there was a 165% increase in homelessness in the last 10 years and blamed Tory cuts. You stipulated it was the fault of EU migrants. I called that bull**** and proved that the jump wasn't a result of EU migrants.

How do YOU explain the numbers, not the percentage, the increased NUMBERS of British homeless in the last 10 years? I can tell you - it's Tory cuts.

Also, with respect to your last sentence. We're talking about homelessness overall. The TOTAL number of homeless people. Not once did i say the total number of homeless EU migrants didn't increase in accordance. In fact, your statement seems to prove that it probably did increase roughly in parallel with the number of British homeless during that period lol.

B@
 
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It's obvious to anyone with 2 eyes that there has been a huge increase in foreign national beggars in the last few years. A colleague of mine did some work on the organised gangs from Romania and the stories of what they would do to women to make them more sympathy inducing is heart breaking. Limbs being amputated, crudely, at childhood is not uncommon.

10 years ago I saw the same types in Italy when I was over there regularly.

It's an uncomfortable fact most homegrown beggars, or more precisely rough sleepers, have severe drug or mental health problems that are nigh on impossible to solve. giving them a flat and some kind of sustinence income can cause even more problems for them as they mix in circles with some nasty exploitative people in the same position. I knew of one example where within 2 days of getting a flat it was being cuckooed by drug dealers and he was being kept as a virtual prisoner.
 
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B@Th*nG said:
How do YOU explain the numbers, not the percentage, the increased NUMBERS of British homeless in the last 10 years? I can tell you - it's Tory cuts.
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In 2008 the UK, like most of the rest of the world was severley affected by the credit crisis. Which was a global issue and not one you can blame on the tories I'm afraid.

The Labour goverment campaigning for the 2010 elections acknowledged that the financial situation the goverment found itself in would require some extreme finanicial restraint even if they were to get into power .

2010 was also the time that the post war generation (who represent a big bulge in the population numbers) stated retiring en masse with thoose born in 1945 now hitting a common pension age of 65 this meant large increases in public spending on things like pensions and health.

I have shown that central/Eastern European rough sleepers account for over 20‰ of all rough sleepers as of August 2018 (latest official figures) . They are not solely responsible for the cited 165% increase but represent a large propertion of that increase.
 
Caracus2k said:
In 2008 the UK, like most of the rest of the world was severley affected by the credit crisis. Which was a global issue and not one you can blame on the tories I'm afraid.

The Labour goverment campaigning for the 2010 elections acknowledged that the financial situation the goverment found itself in would require some extreme finanicial restraint even if they were to get into power .

2010 was also the time that the post war generation (who represent a big bulge in the population numbers) stated retiring en masse with thoose born in 1945 now hitting a common pension age of 65 this meant large increases in public spending on things like pensions and health.

I have shown that central/Eastern European rough sleepers account for over 20‰ of all rough sleepers as of August 2018 (latest official figures) . They are not solely responsible for the cited 165% increase but represent a large propertion of that increase.
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So all 4 of those links I posted, ya know the ones from homeless associations, places like that, who stated that government cuts were responsible were wrong were they? Traditionally homelessness organisations being so politically partizan and all...

But no, instead you, with your transparent brexit bias, are right? Hahah alright mate.

They barely make a quarter of the total figures. In London only 63% of people are British, according to the 2011 census. That percentage seems strangely familiar.. ahh yes, that was the percentage of homeless brits in the 2018 homelessness study.

You're just a bigot dude.

B@
 
B@Th*nG said:
So all 4 of those links I posted, ya know the ones from homeless associations, places like that, who stated that government cuts were responsible were wrong were they? Traditionally homelessness organisations being so politically partizan and all...

But no, instead you, with your transparent brexit bias, are right? Hahah alright mate.

They barely make a quarter of the total figures. In London only 63% of people are British, according to the 2011 census. That percentage seems strangely familiar.. ahh yes, that was the percentage of homeless brits in the 2018 homelessness study.

You're just a bigot dude.

B@
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and you're either dishonest and/ or stupid....

Circa 37% of Londoners are not EU citizens or non UK/EU citizens there are simply not UK born …… so you are comparing apples to oranges as the rough sleeper stats are not made up by country or birth but by nationality

The 2011 census recorded that 2,998,264 people or 36.7% of London's population are foreign-born (including 24.5% born in a non-European country)
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But this is the sort of oversight/lie to be expected from you

 
B@Th*nG said:
They barely make a quarter of the total figures. In London only 63% of people are British, according to the 2011 census. That percentage seems strangely familiar.. ahh yes, that was the percentage of homeless brits in the 2018 homelessness study.
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Eh? You claimed the opposite in a previous post:


B@Th*nG said:
in the 2011 Census it was reported that 37% of people living in london were not british:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London

Hardly surprising that 63% of those sleeping rough in london aren't British i suppose.
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given the apparent contradiction I did a quick search too, the figures I found were closer to the second post of yours quoted above - the below (from 2016) says almost 60% are non-British

https://www.indy100.com/article/the...-in-london-are-foreign-nationals--WkxGkDhwuJW

Almost 60 per cent of recorded people sleeping rough in London are foreign nationals, a new government report shows.

The report from the Department for Local Communities and Government used data from local agencies including volunteers, the police, outreach workers and housing authorities, as well as members of the public, to collect statistical information about the people sleeping rough in single-night snapshots in local authority areas.
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That seems to tie in with what I commented on before, re: Romanians, they're very much overrepresented in the figures for rough sleepers:

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B@Th*nG said:
in the 2011 Census it was reported that 37% of people living in london were not british:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London

Hardly surprising that 63% of those sleeping rough in london aren't British i suppose.

B@
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Ok I am now leaning towards stupid as you apparently don't know the difference between ethnicity, place of birth and nationality

You will also note your link says.....

37% of the population were born outside the UK, including 24.5% born outside of Europe
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So most of the non UK born population are from outside the EU which doesn't tally with the amount that are rough sleepers.
 
The problem with these statistics is that councils dont want to admit it, and would rather brush it under a rug, so i'm not sure i can trust these things.

But on the question of whether or not the policies of the past 4 governments have caused increased homelessness, then i can never say no.
 
Caracus2k said:
Quite as I posted earlier they have motive to under report the number of EU nationals sleeping rough
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They have a motive to under report any number of rough sleepers as it makes the city/area look bad. I genuinely believe you're being obtuse. For sure no one in this country would question the increase in Roma on the streets, but that has been true for years, the increase recently of the occasional new face (that i've definitely noticed) is hardly a falsehood.
 
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