Why are GPUs so expensive?

Perfect_Chaos · 18 Dec 2019 at 14:28

CuriousTomCat said:
If Nvidia and AMD had an equal 50/50% market split, prices would be lower and performance would be higher because they'd be fighting for sales - fact.

You only have yourselves to blame (not directed at AMD GPU owners)!

Monopoly = high prices.

If you want prices to drop then stop buying Nvidia. It's simple.

Not according to the guy above, looks as if he doesn't want even mid range GPUs to be affordable for more people to own them :rolleyes:

CuriousTomCat · 18 Dec 2019 at 14:35

Psycho Sonny said:
So you want people to buy an inferior product?

I buy what is best value for money and at a performance level I want.

I buy from both but lately Nvidia has been top dog for many many years.

So I bought Nvidia for my last 5-6 GPU's Before that I had a few AMD ones then Nvidia before that. I have AMD cpu right now however before that I had intel for years before that.

People buy what is best for them not because they want companies to have an equal split of the market.

No, you've been defending Nvidia's prices so that's fine. I agree with a lot the points you raised in previous posts about this.

I was aiming it at the people who complain about pricing but do nothing about it.

Twinz · 18 Dec 2019 at 14:56

Psycho Sonny said:
Have you looked at the items purchased thread in GD.

It's full of £1K mobiles, £200 keyboards and £50 light bulbs.

it's a willy waving contest. the fact is a lot of people are still buying them. but a vocal few are unhappy. they don't care if poor people can't afford their products. they have budget models to accommodate them.

you have GPU's to cater to every budget. people now need to consider all GPU's over £300 are luxury and premium products. they aren't supposed to owned by the majority.

look at the steam hardware below

https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

1060 - 15%
1050ti
1050
1070
1080
960
970
750ti
2060 - 2%

people need to realise the majority should never be able to afford top end products in a capitalist world. they shouldn't even be able to afford mid-end.

if you look at cars - most people are driving low or low to mid end. most are driving second hand. hardly anyone is buying bugattis.

do people complain they cannot afford a bugatti?

I don't think you understand how progress has worked in free markets.

Many of today's "average" cars outperform vehicles that only the ultra rich could afford in the past.

When adjusted for inflation, what people get for their money generally improves with free markets and competition.

In the case of the 2080, for instance, the "improvement" was a beta feature that wreked frame rates when used....otherwise, it's the same performance for the same money as the last generation.

The idea that any product should start costing more just to block the peasants from ownership sounds like elitist BS. If this were a marketing tactic employed by Nvidia to mask their inability to innovate, I would actually be impressed, but I suspect the superiority complex is more rationalization than effective marketing. (Could be both I suppose)

Your logic would have us stuck at 4 cores and 8 threads for ~$350. And 8C/16Twould cost double. Thankfully, the same money that purchased my 3770k can now purchase performance that destroys that old CPU.

Psycho Sonny · 18 Dec 2019 at 15:20

Twinz said:
I don't think you understand how progress has worked in free markets.

Many of today's "average" cars outperform vehicles that only the ultra rich could afford in the past.

When adjusted for inflation, what people get for their money generally improves with free markets and competition.

In the case of the 2080, for instance, the "improvement" was a beta feature that wreked frame rates when used....otherwise, it's the same performance for the same money as the last generation.

The idea that any product should start costing more just to block the peasants from ownership sounds like elitist BS. If this were a marketing tactic employed by Nvidia to mask their inability to innovate, I would actually be impressed, but I suspect the superiority complex is more rationalization than effective marketing. (Could be both I suppose)

Your logic would have us stuck at 4 cores and 8 threads for ~$350. And 8C/16Twould cost double. Thankfully, the same money that purchased my 3770k can now purchase performance that destroys that old CPU.

Or my model would mean AMD are sustainable and make a profit rather than losing money.

Also the 2080 is faster than the 1080 so I don't understand what you are getting at here.

And the 1080ti launch price may have been low. It went up to £900+ Even £1K at one point I'm sure with a few models at over that price.

So you can't just use the low launch price when times have moved on since then and the product itself was much more expensive years after launch.

So if I sell a product for £700 in 2016. Then in 2017 I'm selling it for £1000. I now make a new product line in 2018 with more power and features. I'd expect to retail it for at least £1000. Same as what I was selling it for in 2017. I wouldn't even take 2016 pricing into account unless it was higher.

So you can't just use pricing which suits your argument. GPU's went up in price by a lot after launch with the 10 series. So using their launch prices isn't making an unbiased argument.

smilertoo · 18 Dec 2019 at 15:33

GPUs are so expensive because every time nVidia bumped the price people paid it...so they keep bumping it up.

Twinz · 18 Dec 2019 at 15:55

Psycho Sonny said:
Or my model would mean AMD are sustainable and make a profit rather than losing money.

Also the 2080 is faster than the 1080 so I don't understand what you are getting at here.

The money that buys the 2080 is the same money that bought the 1080 TI.
The performance that people could get for x money went nowhere.

Twinz · 18 Dec 2019 at 15:56

smilertoo said:
GPUs are so expensive because every time nVidia bumped the price people paid it...so they keep bumping it up.

True.

If Nvidia makes a 3080 Ti next year that is 30% faster than the 2080 Ti and charges 2k for it, there are obviously a few people that will jump on it. Maybe in 2022 we will have cards that are twice as fast as a 1080Ti and cost 4k each.

I suspect that the number of people who demand that performance at that price will be too small to support Nvida's price/performance trajectory at that point though.

Psycho Sonny · 18 Dec 2019 at 16:01

Twinz said:
The money that buys the 2080 is the same money that bought the 1080 TI.
The performance that people could get for x money went nowhere.

it isn't though. 1080ti's were £900-£1200 at their most expensive point.

i know because a mate bought 2 of them just as mining went to it's all time high point and crashed 1-2 months after he bought them.

his PC cost around £3500 iirc. for the tower alone.

stooeh · 18 Dec 2019 at 16:08

Nvidia didn't put their prices up for the FE 1080ti iirc

melmac · 18 Dec 2019 at 16:33

Psycho Sonny said:
it isn't though. 1080ti's were £900-£1200 at their most expensive point.

i know because a mate bought 2 of them just as mining went to it's all time high point and crashed 1-2 months after he bought them.

his PC cost around £3500 iirc. for the tower alone.

Why are you taking the price of cards artificially inflated by the mining boom to be the actual price of the cards? For most of their life most 1080ti cards were priced between £600 and £700.

melmac · 18 Dec 2019 at 16:36

Psycho Sonny said:
So if I sell a product for £700 in 2016. Then in 2017 I'm selling it for £1000. I now make a new product line in 2018 with more power and features. I'd expect to retail it for at least £1000. Same as what I was selling it for in 2017. I wouldn't even take 2016 pricing into account unless it was higher.

Nvidia didn't sell their 1080Ti at £1000, they never did, even during the mining boom they sold their cards at MSRP. It was the retailers and AIB's price gouging during the mining boom that inflated the prices.

Psycho Sonny · 18 Dec 2019 at 16:37

melmac said:
Why are you taking the price of cards artificially inflated by the mining boom to be the actual price of the cards? For most of their life most 1080ti cards were priced between £600 and £700.

Because that was their price at their highest point in their lifetime.

Wasn't artificial inflation either I am afraid. Supply and demand. Nvidia didn't withhold supply to make prices go up. The demand just outweighed supplies at the time.

It's a more fairer comparison because the prices when the cards went EOL were higher than launch. So you can argue that is the price the new cards should be valued against. Because you can't go in a time machine and go back 3 years to buy them at launch. The price when they went EOL is more reflective of the price they were to buy when 2080's were launched.

Psycho Sonny · 18 Dec 2019 at 16:45

melmac said:
Nvidia didn't sell their 1080Ti at £1000, they never did, even during the mining boom they sold their cards at MSRP. It was the retailers and AIB's price gouging during the mining boom that inflated the prices.

did they have any in stock during all that time?

melmac · 18 Dec 2019 at 16:57

Psycho Sonny said:
Because that was their price at their highest point in their lifetime.

Wasn't artificial inflation either I am afraid. Supply and demand. Nvidia didn't withhold supply to make prices go up. The demand just outweighed supplies at the time.

It's a more fairer comparison because the prices when the cards went EOL were higher than launch. So you can argue that is the price the new cards should be valued against. Because you can't go in a time machine and go back 3 years to buy them at launch. The price when they went EOL is more reflective of the price they were to buy when 2080's were launched.

What? I thought 4K8K was bad but that's the most absurd nonsense that I have read in this thread so far.

The price was artificially inflated because of the mining boom. It wasn't normal. People were buying cards to mine not game. Only a fool would use prices during the mining boom as any kind of indication of the real prices of the cards. This has happened before, and if your flawed logic had any basis in reality, then the prices of cards would have increased massively after the last mining boom. They didn't. The 970 wasn't one of the best value cards ever.

And I can't believe your last sentence about EOL prices. Are you for real?

melmac · 18 Dec 2019 at 16:58

Psycho Sonny said:
did they have any in stock during all that time?

Yes, lots of times. They sold out quick but they were available.

Psycho Sonny · 18 Dec 2019 at 17:05

melmac said:
What? I thought 4K8K was bad but that's the most absurd nonsense that I have read in this thread so far.

The price was artificially inflated because of the mining boom. It wasn't normal. People were buying cards to mine not game. Only a fool would use prices during the mining boom as any kind of indication of the real prices of the cards. This has happened before, and if your flawed logic had any basis in reality, then the prices of cards would have increased massively after the last mining boom. They didn't. The 970 wasn't one of the best value cards ever.

And I can't believe your last sentence about EOL prices. Are you for real?

Demand for mining isn't artificial demand.

People still buy cards today to mine on.

What if I buy a card for encoding use is that artificial too? Or I buy it for animation use?

It's not fair to use launch prices on a product that went up in price over it's lifetime. It's a skewed argument. Using their highest ever price is a fairer comparison as it reflects what they sold for or at least an average price over the last year of their lifespan.

When Freddo's launched they were 10p. They are now 30p.

So If I was to launch a new product today to compete against the Freddo would it be fair to use 10p or 30p as the target?

TNA · 18 Dec 2019 at 20:58

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand

Nvidia are just working out how to maximise profits. If demand was to go down or there was more competition, price would come down. Their profit margins are plenty big, they can lower prices a lot and still make a profit, but it would be a less profit overall. They will continue to do what they think will make them maximum profits. They still have plenty market share and unless AMD start to eat into that, the status quo will continue.

My prediction is prices will not go up with the 3000 series, but they won't go down by much either unfortunately. I am expecting the 3070 FE's to cost £400-£500. Crazy amount, but I think their research will probably show that it is a new sweet spot for maximum profits.

Panos · 18 Dec 2019 at 21:08

Psycho Sonny said:
it isn't though. 1080ti's were £900-£1200 at their most expensive point.

i know because a mate bought 2 of them just as mining went to it's all time high point and crashed 1-2 months after he bought them.

his PC cost around £3500 iirc. for the tower alone.

Nvidia didn't put the MSRP on the GTX1080Ti at £900/$900 though. With 2080 & 2080Ti has.

BigBANGtheory · 18 Dec 2019 at 22:13

Psycho Sonny said:
Have you looked at the items purchased thread in GD.

It's full of £1K mobiles, £200 keyboards and £50 light bulbs.

it's a willy waving contest. the fact is a lot of people are still buying them. but a vocal few are unhappy. they don't care if poor people can't afford their products. they have budget models to accommodate them.

you have GPU's to cater to every budget. people now need to consider all GPU's over £300 are luxury and premium products. they aren't supposed to owned by the majority.

look at the steam hardware below

https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

1060 - 15%
1050ti
1050
1070
1080
960
970
750ti
2060 - 2%

people need to realise the majority should never be able to afford top end products in a capitalist world. they shouldn't even be able to afford mid-end.

if you look at cars - most people are driving low or low to mid end. most are driving second hand. hardly anyone is buying bugattis.

do people complain they cannot afford a bugatti?

People can buy what they want, the willy waving contest is a forum thing I don’t care about that. What bothers me is not paying top dollar for top product but getting ripped off with new money for old rope especially when so called gaming review journalism isn’t camping outside NV HQ demanding answers.

Comparison with luxury goods isn’t valid, this is mass produced consumer electronics not a McLaren F1

BigBANGtheory · 18 Dec 2019 at 22:21

smilertoo said:
GPUs are so expensive because every time nVidia bumped the price people paid it...so they keep bumping it up.

Not everyone I passed on the 1080Ti cos it was over priced, in short supply and “not enough raster perf”. Then came the 2000 series and omg what a joke so nope not buying into that crap either..... We are just being played as consumers and its wrong imho Nvidia are perfectly capable of releasing a decent GPU at a sensible price engineering wise its the business thats messing with the product.