EV general discussion

[Journey]

Yes, one location, in a country with a trillion dollar sovereign wealth fund which has a massive tax on ICE cars (and always has). It’s certainly not representative of the rest of the world. Chapparel was just pointing out that where he lives it’s not the same. Why are the 727 chargers in Norway relevant to someone that lives in Guernsey?

As for engaging. I’m all for public charging and think it should be rolled out more. However I also realize that it costs a significant sum of money and is not going to happen overnight. A single location in the aforementioned super rich, low population country is not going to change that. Hence being out of touch with reality. Yes it will happen, but not overnight.

Where did I say it was, please just go and read the original blooming comment, it was aimed at people who say 'it is impossible' to have a good public charging network. Why is a mission to the moon by an american organisation relevant to someone in Scotland? Possibilities and proof of how things can be done, and how they can apply to others if they want to do it as well. It stops people immediately saying, this and that is impossible, the proof is there for everyone to see.

I've had enough of entertaining people who can't be bothered to read now, enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[Amp34]

Where did I say it was, please just go and read the original blooming comment, it was aimed at people who say 'it is impossible' to have a good public charging network. Why is a mission to the moon by an american organisation relevant to someone in Scotland? Possibilities and proof of how things can be done, and how they can apply to others if they want to do it as well. It stops people immediately saying, this and that is impossible, the proof is there for everyone to see.

I've had enough of entertaining people who can't be bothered to read now, enjoy the rest of your day.

You didn’t claim impossible. You were just being disparaging about people pointing out the issues of today.

Perhaps if you’d been less disparaging you would have had more positivity to your comment, instead you just invited negativity by way of what you said.

 

[Pottsey]

Millions...but handed over to contractors. So probably one charger.

The cars themselves will be a different budget.

You are very wrong. We have had almost 80 chargers fitted in our town alone. That’s a town not a city nor is it counting peoples own home chargers. They are all over from visitor parks, visitor centers, designer outlets, pubs, restaurants, shopping centers, main hospital, multi-storey car park and more. Our near by city is up to 2,229 points again not counting peoples homes.

That’s already installed and working and a lot more are on the way. I don’t know how you can pretend there is no infrastructure or that there is little infrastructure on the way. Its clear the infrastructure is already well on its way and growing fast.

The current growth rate across the UK is averaging out at 800 points per month every month and growing. It is getting easier by the month to find a charge point. This is not counting peoples own home chargers.

Amusing really how many people think the production of all this electricity is wonderful and carbon free. Especially once demand really ramps up.

You will never see a complete end to internal combustion engines because an electric car will always need a power source to charge. Some places in the world still need to use internal combustion to generate the power they use for domestic needs let alone transportation.

No one ever said they are carbon free in production and I wasn’t talking about the world but the UK. After production the carbon footprint is tiny compared to an ICE car and the air pollution which is the main reason the governments wants to get rid of ICE cars goes away with EV’s. I produce the vast amount of my own electricity needs with solar panels and panels are common around this area. Every other home and company has them.

With the way things are going we will see an end to internal combustion engines in the UK at least for home driving cars. As the ICE cars become a smaller portion of road traffic the patrol stations will start shutting down in regards to fuel. Over time it well become harder to find a patrol station and fuel up an ICE car then it is to find EV charging point today.

 

[jpaul]

we did discuss public charger install rate earlier in the thread .... they need 45 public in liverpool per week, alone, to meet future demand,
so 800 per month for the uk e:bairlybarely suffices.

Key Liverpool City Region targets on the path to Net Zero by 2040

• Number of electric vehicle charging points needed by 2040: 585,340
• Number of these which will be installed in public places: 47,711
• Estimated cost to install chargers across the Liverpool City Region: £890 million
• Number of homes that will install heat pumps by 2040: 547,459
• Estimated cost of installing these heat pumps: £4.9 billion
• Estimated network reinforcement cost by 2040: £1.4 billion*
• Estimated jobs supported by decarbonisation investment: 12,466

..45 public/week

 

[Journey]

we did discuss public charger install rate earlier in the thread .... they need 45 public in liverpool per week, alone, to meet future demand,
so 800 per month for the uk bairly suffices.

If you can't figure out that no single city needs over 1/2 a million public chargers then I have to laugh. That number likely includes the 3.6/7.2kWh home chargers, there are not even 600k people living in Liverpool, so no idea why they'd need a charger each, complete and utter rubbish the number shown.

 

[jpaul]

That number likely includes the 3.6/7.2kWh home chargers,

facetious reply .. that's why the 500k is labelled chaging points as distinct from public chargers ... read their pdf

 

[Pottsey]

we did discuss public charger install rate earlier in the thread .... they need 45 public in liverpool per week, alone, to meet future demand,
so 800 per month for the uk e:bairlybarely suffices.

Its more then suffices as that’s by 2040. In 2018 we had an x7.2 increase per month over 2011 and the trend is going up each year. At the current increase of new points per month its not looking like there is going to be any problem what so ever to hit that target. There is already more then enough points to cover current EV’ s on the road today and the infrastructure is growing more then fast enough to cover new EV’s.

“If you can't figure out that no single city needs over 1/2 a million public chargers then I have to laugh. That number likely includes the 3.6/7.2kWh home chargers, there are not even 600k people living in Liverpool, so no idea why they'd need a charger each, complete and utter rubbish the number shown.”

They are saying they need 47,711 public chargers by 2040. The 585,340 is home chargers as they are saying there will be a goal of zero new patrol cars and a strong push into converting old patrol into EV’s. Which in turn means a vast reduction in patrol stations. There should be a point around or after 2040 where its harder to get fuel at a patrol station then it is to find EV charge point today.

 

[Journey]

they need 45 public in liverpool per week, alone, to meet future demand

facetious reply .. that's why the 500k is labelled chaging points as distinct from public chargers ... read their pdf

Quoted you again, they need 45 public chargers per week. I'm not entirely sure why you saying that shouldn't be pointed out. A home charger isn't a public charger, just for clarity sake.

 

[Pottsey]

Quoted you again, they need 45 public chargers per week. I'm not entirely sure why you saying that shouldn't be pointed out. A home charger isn't a public charger, just for clarity sake.

We are already on average over the year at 200 per week across the UK and that should increase massively long before 2040. I really don't see why it will be a problem.

 

[Fusion]

Remember the 2040 UK target is for PURE petrol or diesel cars, it doesn’t include hybrids. This seems to get overlooked a lot by people and the media.

Petrol and diesel cars will still be allowed, so long as they have a hybrid system (don’t even think it has to be a plug in). Big difference.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Fairly sure the Gov clarified it later to say hybrids were out after 2040.

 

[Nasher]

Last I read diesel (diesels will probably be gone by then) and petrol hybrids will still be allowed after 2040.

I don't think they even put specifics on it. So you could use the hybrid system purely to boost performance, rather than for eco reasons

 

[Pottsey]

Last I read diesel (diesels will probably be gone by then) and petrol hybrids will still be allowed after 2040.

I don't think they even put specifics on it. So you could use the hybrid system purely to boost performance, rather than for eco reasons

Some well be around but there will be a strong push away from them. Like it or not Petrol is on the way out its just a question of how long. Another step will be patrol cars will get banned from more areas while Ev's allowed.

 

[Fusion]

Fairly sure the Gov clarified it later to say hybrids were out after 2040.

Nope! This is what I mean. The amount of confusion out there is nuts.

 

[McPhee]

The Government's "target" gets far more attention than it deserves TBH. The vast majority of manufacturers (if not all of them) will have stopped producing pure petrol & diesel vehicles long before 2040. It seems a bit pointless.

 

[Fusion]

It’s a good way of looking interested and proactive without having to actually do anything.

 

[skookum]

I can see the 2040 target getting extended. Although some companies are stopping development of ICE BMW recently said they believed they had another 20 years lifespan in sales.
Like I have said I would be happy to have an EV if there was a solution that would work for me. As a taxi driver it is highly likely my next vehicle will be diesel in just over 3 years time.

Not sure comments like 'your fault for living somewhere without off road parking' will promote the idea with the motoring public. We need solutions not a roads for the few policy.

Many councils have been restricting driveways and garages when granting planning permission and continue to do so to cram more houses in. Not exactly forward thinking.

I also think an outeight ban on diesel and petrol is counterproductive. Manufacturers have been making great strides in making engines cleaner and more efficient. The stopping of development with an overrun of 20 years will cost far more in emissions than continued development and voluntary switch to EV.

I actually do not believe the plug in EV will be the future of motoring, more a stop gap. There are just too many variables and challenges. The disposal of batteries I think will be a huge problem in the future.

To be honest given the age I am the only EV I am likely to have to travel in will probably be hearse.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I think the opposite personally, I think it could well be pulled forwards, as soon as its viable for the majority to switch
Best government policy is when they encourage the good behaviour, and they are doing that, changes to BIK being a noteable significant one

For me if I could charge 300 miles in an hour it would suit. I spend that most weeks at the supermarket, so perfect (my normal weekly mileage is 200 or so) this is a little way off but its less far off than the gains we have seen in 5 years so I certainly see it as probable

To me the government have started the basics, market forces will cover the rest, once EVs gain a good foothold the prices of petrol and diesel will be at risk, stations will close (leading to fuel being less widely available) or they will have to hike teh prices to maintain the profit on liquid fuel, again this will be a critical mass thing as that will encourage more to switch etc etc feedback loop will be in motion

 

[Nasher]

Petrol will get cheaper as demand drops.

The only thing which makes it expensive even now is the tax. That tax will start getgin shifted to EVs as they get more popular though...

 

[Fusion]

Petrol will get cheaper as demand drops.

No it won't.

When does this ever happen? Conventional fuels are going to be targeted more and more heavily over time with tax, until they become almost unviable in the long term.

I guess eventually we'll migrate to a VED system of charging per mile.