It’s already being done. Powervault offer the option using used battery cells from Renault Zoe’s I believe. Didn’t appeal to me but going forward it’s defiantly a viable option and a means of recycling.
Home solar with battery storage
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It’s already being done. Powervault offer the option using used battery cells from Renault Zoe’s I believe. Didn’t appeal to me but going forward it’s defiantly a viable option and a means of recycling.
Soldato
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Ah ok, i am surprised, i thought the drivetrains were in demand for custom Ev conversions, but I guess its a marketplace so where there is demand
I think they will fall a lot (in cost) in 5-10 years time when there starts to be a serious supply of semi degraded batteries
We have had a 4Kw system for 7 years now and it has just about paid for its self as we had the feed in tariff. Last year was the best production year so far so no sign if degradation. Looked into batteries but not worth it yet.
I got some traction batteries far cheaper than that!Agreed, but a lot bulkier and heaver. And they need maintenance too.
If you are willing to take the risk.....!
For example, though there are many others
(For lead acid to have long life, you do not want to cycle more than about 10-15% of total AH capacity, so you need to specify at least 5 times what you actually think you want/need)
Of course, If you can snag yourself some ex submarine batteries then you are laughing!
Albeit about 50-60% usable but 40KwH for <£1000
Caporegime
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One of the hidden benefits of course of having battery storage is should there be a grid outage you have some control over what you have stored and can in theory still function when the rest are sitting in the dark trying to find a candle
I bet you would be popular with the neighbours at that point
Currently they are using new cells and hence they are expensive. Plenty predict that once EVs start being recycled and with the batteries estimated as being probably 70% capacity by that point, the logical next step is these will go into home and commercial battery storage where the density issue will be far less of a problem.
I can't remember the last time I had a power outage. But I keep my fridge at 1C and freezer at -27C anyway and it's modern and therefore very efficient so sealed and won't leak cold.
If there was a long power outage I imagine the £30 or so in food waste would be fine rather than spending £2K on a battery system to prevent it. What happens if the power outage happens in winter where the battery is dead anyway?
I still wouldn't have power so again it's not a fallible system.
A lot of the MSE forum's argument is using eco 7 meter for cheap leccy rather than storing solar power. So they store cheap leccy and use that instead. The solar just tops up the battery.
Soldato
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Why would it be empty, unless timing was terrible.
Yes power outages are pretty rare, but some people do get them more regularly than others. So of course for them its more usable
Its not just the freezer etc though, its the ability to run the heating as well, charge your phone, boil a kettle etc.
Its why loads of people who live outside major towns / cities etc have a generator.
Its also semi predictable, its normally a storm that will affect them, so they can avoid draining the battery in advance in these scenarios.
Anyway as i said, its a hidden advantage, its not a primary one.
Battery storage is kind of independent to solar but of course you can store the solar you produce, makes total sense to buy cheap and use that when you can.
IMO in years to come when the grid is smarter battery storage will be more about storing the energy when its got a surplus and cheap, and less about storing the solar individually specifically.
I suspect everyone will be on a variable rate tariff then, and encouraged to time devices to use power when its in surplus.
Caporegime
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The guy who posted that post on MSE must be a rocket scientist.
so he has done the maths and over 10 years he might save £150 if his batteries and panels don't degrade at all, etc. has he factored in the cost of a new inverter?
also he is planning on buying more batteries so he can spend 7p per kwh on charging them at night to use them during the day. that won't be 100% efficient so lets say it costs him 8p or even 9p per kwh he actually gets to use as he will lose some through inefficiencies.
now let me get this right. he doesn't want to move to a normal tariff like mine where i pay 12p. but is prepared to spend thousands of pounds to save at best 2p per kwh. well that is a lot of kwh's before he sees those thousands of pounds back and by then the batteries are knackered and not making anywhere near the savings they would have originally. has he factored in degradation?
it's a bit like a guy a i know who sold his brand new £80K range rover after a few years to then buy a brand new £60K car to save on fuel. bearing in mind his new car would depreciate more in 1-2 years than he would save in fuel over 10 years.
batteries don't make sense period it seems. even when using the crazy scenarios on MSE.
i like the sound of OVO scheme though. it would be worth getting an electric car if you do very low mileage to use that scheme. so long as you don't need the car during the day on most days.
again a very unique scenario. so makes zero sense for most people.
I posted that i made 4.1kwh last week from my solar. that isn't going to keep a battery topped up.
so he has done the maths and over 10 years he might save £150 if his batteries and panels don't degrade at all, etc. has he factored in the cost of a new inverter?
also he is planning on buying more batteries so he can spend 7p per kwh on charging them at night to use them during the day. that won't be 100% efficient so lets say it costs him 8p or even 9p per kwh he actually gets to use as he will lose some through inefficiencies.
now let me get this right. he doesn't want to move to a normal tariff like mine where i pay 12p. but is prepared to spend thousands of pounds to save at best 2p per kwh. well that is a lot of kwh's before he sees those thousands of pounds back and by then the batteries are knackered and not making anywhere near the savings they would have originally. has he factored in degradation?
it's a bit like a guy a i know who sold his brand new £80K range rover after a few years to then buy a brand new £60K car to save on fuel. bearing in mind his new car would depreciate more in 1-2 years than he would save in fuel over 10 years.
batteries don't make sense period it seems. even when using the crazy scenarios on MSE.
i like the sound of OVO scheme though. it would be worth getting an electric car if you do very low mileage to use that scheme. so long as you don't need the car during the day on most days.
again a very unique scenario. so makes zero sense for most people.
I posted that i made 4.1kwh last week from my solar. that isn't going to keep a battery topped up.
Quoted myself, still applies no everyone cares about money in the same way.
We spend thousands on horses every year, to ride a few miles a week, is that bad or good? You literally seem to know everything about everything, and are always right so please enlighten us all.
Soldato
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If your only in it for the money being an early adopter will virtually never pay off. About the only chance is if its somehow subsidised
I remember as a kid, late 70s, one of the people near my parents house got solar panels. My dad was like, pfft why would you do that, wont save any money
The guy was a typical sandal wearing hippie.
Some people will do things before they are cost effective. We should thank them rather than dispelling simply based on maths. Without people like him the industry may well have been a lot less advanced than it is now.
We are nothing but irrational in some things (we will defend them to the death typically, like people who spend £1000 on a washing machine). Sometimes the irrationals are doing us a favour.
I remember as a kid, late 70s, one of the people near my parents house got solar panels. My dad was like, pfft why would you do that, wont save any money
The guy was a typical sandal wearing hippie.
Some people will do things before they are cost effective. We should thank them rather than dispelling simply based on maths. Without people like him the industry may well have been a lot less advanced than it is now.
We are nothing but irrational in some things (we will defend them to the death typically, like people who spend £1000 on a washing machine). Sometimes the irrationals are doing us a favour.
Caporegime
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direct quote from OP
"thats a really interesting thread. For me at least its as much about reducing my Co2 emissions as "saving money".....i suppose i need to so some sums. Perhaps the battery doesn't make sense yet, but the panels may."
so why does he need to do sums if saving money isn't the reason for getting them?
looks like it's turned into. i'm looking at getting solar to reduce my energy bill. to him being told it iwll never reduce it. to now saying he wants solar to be green and don't care about costs.
it's amazing to see when someone has their heart set on something. they are told it won't do what they think it will. they go ahead and purchase anyway and justify it whatever way they can.
the time to buy solar was in the initial year of FIT. now with no FIT I can't see anyone making their money back unless it's a commercial set up or they do everything themselves.
if he truly wanted to be green why even bother asking the question on here. go out and buy the panels, battery and an electric car. get a heat pump too whilst he is at it. and all the other green tech.
Caporegime
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I spent around £1800 on my washing machine. However I do have a hoody just as an example that cost over £700.
I didn't want any of my expensive clothes being worn out or damaged by a machine. Cheaper to get a decent machine than to buy a new wardrobe. I also have several shirts that were over £100 each.
My wife has several custom made outfits by top designers that cost thousands which need to be dry cleaned, etc. It's all relative.
You don't buy a £1800 washing machine to save money.
Soldato
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Im not sure if your trolling now.
Caporegime
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Christian audigier is the name of the designer of the hoody.
Wife's outfits made by top designer in India for Asian fashion.
Typical Asian wedding costs £100k can easily spend £5k on a wedding outfit. A normal Asian outfit is anywhere between £400-£2000
No need to be so bitter about it.
If it appeals to you go and get one if it doesn’t then don’t. Simple really.
Come the end of the warranty period I’ll have a battery that owes me nothing and still have solar panels that cost me nothing. From that point on the battery will save me money and energy companies will be receiving less money from me I’ll be almost energy independent when the sunnier months come along, how long it lasts until it needs replacing I’ll let you know in 10-20 years time.
My advice is if you only care about money then look at something else, if you want to dabble then dabble. Anyone who needs some advice or info I’m happy to help, anyone who just wants to point out how it’s a waste of money then mwah mwah my heart bleeds.
If it appeals to you go and get one if it doesn’t then don’t. Simple really.
Come the end of the warranty period I’ll have a battery that owes me nothing and still have solar panels that cost me nothing. From that point on the battery will save me money and energy companies will be receiving less money from me I’ll be almost energy independent when the sunnier months come along, how long it lasts until it needs replacing I’ll let you know in 10-20 years time.
My advice is if you only care about money then look at something else, if you want to dabble then dabble. Anyone who needs some advice or info I’m happy to help, anyone who just wants to point out how it’s a waste of money then mwah mwah my heart bleeds.
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Merely flexing his e-peen.
Well that is if wasting £700 on a hoody is flexing.
Next we'll here that he is top revenue earner and have a small collection of Gucci belts that cost thousands of pounds.
Soldato
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Merely flexing his e-peen.
Well that is if wasting £700 on a hoody is flexing.
Next we'll here that he is top revenue earner and have a small collection of Gucci belts that cost thousands of pounds.
Seemingly so yeah. £700 on a hoodie, lolz
And then having to spend £1800 on a washing machine to protect said hoodie
Seems really logical to be fixating on how a power bank isnt saving someone money, but it reinforces my point, people are irrational on justifying what they spend money on
FWIW, in 30 years or so of having my own washing machines I cant think of a single article of clothing ruined in one. I cant actually think I have ever heard of anyone who has either.
Tales of missing socks etc sure
I guess the old addage of a fool and their money are easily parted still rings true =)