Errol Graham RIP
- Thread starter stockhausen
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- 12,130
Does that make it OK thenIt's sad, but good political ammo for the lefties apparently so at least there's that. I'm sure no one ever died in such a manner under Labour
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Associate
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In this case yes - this was a guy who was too scared to open the curtains most days so would likely have been unable to travel to an assessment centre, which can be some way away. At the point that he would have been sent for assessment, options for a home visit were limited, there was no means to explain that he couldn't attend and no attempt to contact his GP for more info. For me, the most damning part of this case is that they'd flagged him as highly vulnerable but made no attempts to check on his well-being before stopping his payments after he failed to attend, ignoring their own safeguarding guidance. This is not an isolated case however, I've helped dozens of people with appeals and the success rate is absurdly high for a very good reason.
Soldato
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It's easy to blame the government
Or companies like A. T. O. S
Who are More commonly known
As don't give a toss by some of
The people who they have assessed
Kind of stands to reason
A private company is in it for profit
But truthfully we live in a less
Caring society than we once did
Certainly shown by some
Comments here
The days of knowing every one
Who lived in your street
Are mostly long gone
Never mind actually helping them
That said there is no easy answer
People with severe depression
Tend to not want to talk about it
There's still the old stigma
Of mental illness
Being different from physical illness
And depressed people will
Isolate themselves by not answering
The door, the phone, letters etc
It's hard to help someone you
Are unable to make contact with
Not saying the system doesn't make
Things hard though
If you get a bad decision from these
Benefits assessments it can
Take 18 months to get to an appeal
Tribunal
So yeah people will starve or freeze
To death in some situations
Or become depressed even if they
Weren't to begin with
I have nothing but sympathy for the
Guy
And anyone else in a similar situation
Or companies like A. T. O. S
Who are More commonly known
As don't give a toss by some of
The people who they have assessed
Kind of stands to reason
A private company is in it for profit
But truthfully we live in a less
Caring society than we once did
Certainly shown by some
Comments here
The days of knowing every one
Who lived in your street
Are mostly long gone
Never mind actually helping them
That said there is no easy answer
People with severe depression
Tend to not want to talk about it
There's still the old stigma
Of mental illness
Being different from physical illness
And depressed people will
Isolate themselves by not answering
The door, the phone, letters etc
It's hard to help someone you
Are unable to make contact with
Not saying the system doesn't make
Things hard though
If you get a bad decision from these
Benefits assessments it can
Take 18 months to get to an appeal
Tribunal
So yeah people will starve or freeze
To death in some situations
Or become depressed even if they
Weren't to begin with
I have nothing but sympathy for the
Guy
And anyone else in a similar situation
Correct. There were lots of days I didnt get out of bed at all. I stopped shaving and stopped having showers. I looked a mess.
Yet bizarrely I and many others think it has shifted right. We never have had as many people having to use food banks and living in poverty.
Does that make it OK then
If there's a widespread, systematic failure to care for such people, then that's not OK. Using one tragic story as evidence that the government has failed us is political point scoring, which is crass, tasteless and ultimately only drives the country deeper into political division.
Do you think that far-left government prevents people from living in poverty?
Well done you but sadly most people nowadays wouldnt do that or go to the effort you made.
No but Phasmahal seems to think its has a bearing that in the the last 20 years governments have moved more leftie.
I personally dont care who is in government and will judge them on the results. More and more elderly and families and kids living in poverty and then having the safety nets removed in the worlds 5th richest country is a disgrace.
But you used it as evidence that it had moved to the right. My point is that it's not that simple, and if you think that a move to the left couldn't cause poverty then you're mistaken. I don't personally have much faith in any politicians these days, but I'll never endorse socialism.
I know full well that a move to the left wouldnt have abolished poverty however a move to the right tends to mean that the government interfers less and leave people to their own devices and they dont have the appetite to spend money on the welfare state or social care which in turn leads to more poverty.
I am a middle ground person myself and think extremes on both sides isnt good but the direction the conservatives have shifted isnt enough "socialism" for my liking.
social services can always be run badly but it really cant help when assessments are subcontracted out to the private sector employing unqualified people with check lists to decide who gets the benefit. Its definitely a case of people like Errol Graham are being driven away.
The UK poverty rate has remained roughly the same since 2005....
Current/recent figures
Eurostat figures show that the numbers of Britons at risk of poverty has fallen to 15.9% in 2014, down from 17.1% in 2010 and 19% in 2005 (after social transfers were taken into account).
If the poverty line is defined as those individuals and households with incomes less than 60% of their respective medians, then "nearly 60%" of those in poverty are homeowners.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_Kingdom#Current/recent_figures
Source?
Ultimately, the real problem here is that This particular individual should really have been living in an asylum. Regardless of how much resources is put into supporting people, some are simply never going to be able to survive out in the world on their own because they simply lack the will and personal support network, (which the state cannot substitute for, no matter how much it spends)
I have always felt that shutting down the asylums was one of Thatchers bigger mistakes.
Care in the community is fine for many people with chronic mental illness, possibly even most. But not for everybody.
As for my own experience of this. I had a good friend back in the 80's who was schizophrenic and lived out in the world. For a while she managed well enough but became increasingly erratic, made her neighbour's lives utter misery, and did eventually haveing to be institutionalised.
Sure she had her adult independence (of a sort) for a while, but in hindsight she might well have had a happier life in a more sheltered community away from the outside world.
a council which has had its central funding cut to the bone no doubt by current and previous tory based administrations..........
You can't pin this entirely on local councils, the only thing they can do is hike up council tax and everyone complains about that too.
- Joined
- 30 Jul 2006
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- 12,130
Undoubtedly true (people complaining) but the sad reality is that NOBODY wants to pay for social services . . . until they need it
However, I can't say that I can recall Food Banks being such a big thing. As it happens, I believe that a lot of the so-called "assessment" work has been farmed out to the likes of Capita who are entirely in it for the money.
I know a retired GP who (for a short while) acted on a review panel where people who had been declared fit to work were assessed. He said that a significant majority were declared unfit to work and yet it appeared that the people who had made the original assessment were not in any way questioned as to why they had made frankly incredible judgements - he gave up in disgust. (In one of my politer moments) I would describe him as a True Blue Tory.