So, Ferrari were 'not exactly following the spirit of the rules' then?

[GravyMonster]

They better have a track record of doing the same thing in the same circumstances (with other teams), else it will still be construed as Ferrari international assistance.

They don't have a track record of doing this. Every other infringement of the last 25 years (at least that's as far back as I can remember) got publicly investigated and got the OK, or was banned as 'legal but dodgy', or was penalised.

This sets a dangerous precedent for the FIA to just sweep stuff under the rug when it's uncomfortable for those involved. And yet again the question of Todt's allegiances raises its head. How he got the FIA job I'll never understand.

 

[JRS]

If we de-code their press release, they’re basically saying they chose not to investigate.

They better have a track record of doing the same thing in the same circumstances (with other teams), else it will still be construed as Ferrari international assistance.

I suppose there was the whole deal about Toyota being in possession of Ferrari technical data in 2004 - the FIA never investigated it AFAIK, the Cologne DA did but investigated individuals rather than the team. And there have been times when the FIA investigated but simply chose not to punish. 2007, Renault and their espionage controversy for example - the FIA found Renault F1 in breach of article 151c (the same article that McLaren fell foul of in '07) but didn't penalise them.

 

[Greboth]

Soooooo ...… FIA who have been inconsistent in their decision making and punishments continue to be inconsistent - Makes sense.

 

[GravyMonster]

2007, Renault and their espionage controversy for example - the FIA found Renault F1 in breach of article 151c (the same article that McLaren fell foul of in '07) but didn't penalise them.

I'd forgotten about Toyota, but the FIA/WMSC chose to punish Briatore and Simmonds directly instead of Renault. Clearly it was a cop-out, but there was some public blame apportioned.

 

[mmj_uk]

The FIA statement just reads like they have no balls to be completely honest, if it was one of the lesser teams then you can bet they'd be taking things further. I think it's more damaging to the sport to see the FIA continually pandering to Ferrari.

It's either that, or as I said before the FIA have actually caught them cheating, have proof of it and rather than embarrassing the sport (and Ferrari) they've used it as leverage over Ferrari.. but like I said before it stinks either way that it's all being kept hush hush.

 

[JRS]

I'd forgotten about Toyota, but the FIA/WMSC chose to punish Briatore and Simmonds directly instead of Renault. Clearly it was a cop-out, but there was some public blame apportioned.

That was over the Singapore crash, wasn't it? Not the espionage.

 

[mmj_uk]

The FIA claim they don't want a protracted court case but isn't that what they'll get now with the rest of the paddock? and rather than it being a case of whether Ferrari cheated or not it'll be about whether the FIA are fit to govern F1.

 

[cuke2u]

I think Ferarri should be applauded, they seem to have produced a car faster than any other on the grid, they proved there was no cheating, they co-operated fully and transparently with the investigations and nothing was proven. I think the other teams should stop whining, because all their gameplay is about finding out how it was done so they can replicate it.
Renault in particular should shut up as they had been using a illegal braking system since 2015.

 

[hominid]

The FIA statement just reads like they have no balls to be completely honest

I've just had another thought, maybe it's the way the FIA wanted to deal with it as their hands were tried by Ferrari. So, instead of putting out a better sounding statement they release the one they did, putting things in a way that can and would have be taken badly, thus letting the teams what has happened without saying it, and let the teams force their hand..

I'm not sure about it really, I can see it *if* the FIA were so peed off about it, having had reassurances from Ferrari all last year that it was legal, only to find out after the season was over that that wasn't the case. I wasn't joking that this has potential to be the biggest controversy in F1 history, Ferrari could walk and it would be to the detriment of everyone. Or, if true, people like Mateschitz could pull both teams out, Mercedes could pull out with their engine and in one stroke 2/3 teams without an engine supply, lot's of permutations *if* there is any truth to it.

This all goes back to the FIA being soft on Ferrari, because Ferrari act like children and regularly throw there toys out the pram, I can count probably 5 times last year that they went easy on Ferrari or Ferrari drivers - in one year! So, if you have a history of being soft is it such a surprise that Ferrari take bigger and bigger liberties? The FIA reaped what they sowed, now they got to deal with this mess for the next few months and instead of people being mad at Ferrari they are mad at the FIA instead..

It's either that, or as I said before the FIA have actually caught them cheating, have proof of it and rather than avoid embarrassing the sport they've used it as leverage over Ferrari.. but like I said before it stinks either way that it's all being kept hush hush.

I do think it's more than likely this, but it should never have been an option on the table. They did it, fine them and kick them out the championship for the year, just like they've done before with McLaren, they can afford it - but they want to save face, if the Italian way.

The teams are interested in the details because, *if* true, they are owed millions by the FIA. And, if Ferrari were cheating, as I suspect, if should be known, at least to the teams(I would want it public), and Ferrari should be punished accordingly. This has a long way to play out.

I think Ferarri should be applauded, they seem to have produced a car faster than any other on the grid

An they failed to with the championship - good old Ferrari..

they proved there was no cheating

No, They didn't! In fact, as the statement is worded it looks to be the exact opposite

they co-operated fully and transparently with the investigations and nothing was proven.

No, They haven't to the last part!

I think the other teams should stop whining

Good luck with that - it's F1..

because all their gameplay is about finding out how it was done so they can replicate it

They've already put an extra fuel flow sensor(out of the way) that on;y the FIA can read in real time. They knew how they did it and have already taken steps to stop it - it won't happen again. It's no surprise that they chose Ferrari to team up with to stamp out cheating as it was Ferrari using that cheat.

Renault in particular should shut up as they had been using a illegal braking system since 2015.

They actually got punnished for it when the FIA was made aware - unlike Ferrari. Ferrari had the enhanced engine for over 1/2 the year, sometime worth nearly a second, what punishment should they get for that?

 

[cuke2u]

What makes your armchair opinion any more valid than mine though? You are obviously on a mission to credit yours being far greater than anyone else's. Well you are welcome to it, as you stated, this is f1 which invalidates and contradicts all your statements...

 

[deuse]

What makes your armchair opinion any more valid than mine though? You are obviously on a mission to credit yours being far greater than anyone else's. Well you are welcome to it, as you stated, this is f1 which invalidates and contradicts all your statements...

"The FIA said it was “not fully satisfied” that the power unit was being used within the rules,"

Is that clear enough?

 

[Flibster]

The FIA will take all necessary action to protect the sport and its role and reputation as regulator of the FIA Formula One World Championship.

Protect the sport? Failed.
Protect it's role? Failed.
Protect it's reputation? Really, REALLY failed!

 

[Flibster]

Helmut Marko everyone...

This whole thing has reached FIFA levels. The only difference between FIA and FIFA is one letter. In every other association it would be political suicide what Todt as the leader of the FIA allowed to happen. The FIA discredited a sport where we are investing a triple digit million sum every year. You cant accept that anymore.

Comparing FIA to FIFA......

 

[englishpremier]

This may go to the Arbitration court in Paris.

Or an actual real court rather than a clown show.

 

[Entai]

"The FIA said it was “not fully satisfied” that the power unit was being used within the rules,"

Is that clear enough?

But to convict you need actual physical evidence, and the FIA have none, they might suspect something is wrong and in breach of the rules, but with no physical evidence proving so, they cannot go further.

I suspect the FIA know how Ferrari could have cheated, but cannot prove if Ferrari actually did cheat during a qualifying or race session.

This exactly ^

The FIA claim they don't want a protracted court case but isn't that what they'll get now with the rest of the paddock? and rather than it being a case of whether Ferrari cheated or not it'll be about whether the FIA are fit to govern F1.

They don't want a court case as they have no evidence there was actual cheating.

If it was to go to court then without physical evidence, the court could very easily rule no case to answer, and kick it straight out, and that pretty much to all intents and purposes rules that whatever Ferrari were doing IS legal.

It's the same as any court, innocent till proved guilty, it is up to the FIA to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Ferrari were cheating with hard physical evidence to back it up.



Which is simply why Ferrari agreed to settle, they knew they were cheating, and if evidence had been found, then they would have been banned, and lost all their points and the money that goes with it, settle it and keep the points.

 

[JBeck]

Alpha Tauri are in bed with Red Bull. I think you may be getting confused with Alfa Romeo, who are Ferrari's B team.

Yes totally, I was reading two news articles at once, my bad.

What I should have said was Alpha Tauri did not sign.

Still bought a lot of popcorn though, this is not going to end any time soon.

I really can see Ferrari walking if it comes out they were cheating, and if this goes legal, it will come out.

 

[MissChief]

FIA ‘We know you’re cheating, we just can’t prove it. We’d rather not spent months and millions of pounds proving this, please stop cheating. We won’t take it any further and you won’t be punished with points reduction or fines’

Ferrari ‘Seems fair. We’ll stop what we were doing. This is not an admittance of guilt or that we were cheating though’

 

[deuse]

It's about time the owners of F1 ditched the fia.
They are not needed in any way.

 

[Bazzards]

It's about time the owners of F1 ditched the fia.

I was thinking that. Does F1 need the FIA from a legal standpoint?

 

[Greboth]

But to convict you need actual physical evidence, and the FIA have none, they might suspect something is wrong and in breach of the rules, but with no physical evidence proving so, they cannot go further.

They don't want a court case as they have no evidence there was actual cheating.

If it was to go to court then without physical evidence, the court could very easily rule no case to answer, and kick it straight out, and that pretty much to all intents and purposes rules that whatever Ferrari were doing IS legal.

It's the same as any court, innocent till proved guilty, it is up to the FIA to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Ferrari were cheating with hard physical evidence to back it up.

Which is simply why Ferrari agreed to settle, they knew they were cheating, and if evidence had been found, then they would have been banned, and lost all their points and the money that goes with it, settle it and keep the points.

This exactly.

Though I still wonder what idiot at the FIA thought settling was a good idea. If they couldn't have proven that Ferrari cheated, rule the car legal and add the extra sensor for this year. This surely would have been a better outcome than this detritus show of people and other teams being up in arms over secret settlements and the FIA still not having actually said Ferrari were legal. Yes, innocent until proven guilty so we must treat Ferrari as innocent but I think it says a lot that the FIA have only said they couldn't prove cheating rather than actually say they're innocent.