Replacing gaming headset with Headphones/dac+amp/modmic advice

hardyxd

hardyxd

hardyxd

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North Notts
Hi All

I am wanting to replace my Sennheiser PC360. I had the GAME ONE before, but my now wife, hoovered the cable a few years ago before crying. with some better headphones+modmic. I have been doing plenty research but keep going round in circles.

Looking to get v moda boom pro or modmic 4, due to cost. Keeping it below £60 for a mic instead of a blue yeti. The cheap usb desk mic's, without arm seem to have a lot of feedback but its only the modmic 4 which has unidirectional mic option out of these but also has omni.

For headphones, I want mainly for gaming, audio fidelity competitive fps mainly footstep pinpointing and general use. Comfort is important to me since I have a slightly bigger head than normal.

My research says I need treble, imaging and sound-stage to achieve this.
I do like open back since it's what I'm used too.

I have narrowed down to these headphones
- Philips SHP9500 £110
- AKG702 £110
- DT 990 EDITION £130-140 32/250 ohm
- Audio Technica AD500X £122
- Sennheiser HD 599 £122 - kind of want to try another brand but these are too comfy

I'm not wanting to spend more than £140-150ish on the headphones, closer to £100 the better.

If I get 1 of the above with the modmic. I am seeing that I will need a headphone dac+amp? But I want a budget one for around £50-60ish ideally.
I am told that I need separate input into the dac/amp for mic due to the modmic, not a combined one like the SB G1 with just 1 hole for both which is for a gaming headset.

I'm looking at:
- SoundBlaster G3 - https://uk.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-g3 £50

Is there anything better for under £60 out there, do I really need to push for SB X3 or SBX G6?

I have been looking at headphones reddit -
https://sites.google.com/view/headphoneadvice/gaming/category-100-400 this is Reddit's advice for $100-400 for gaming but it seem's outdated, especially on the AMP recommendations.

BACKUP no hassle all in ones. Both closed back though.
- Logitech Gaming Pro X £90 (staff discount at currys)
- HyperX Cloud Alpha S £90 (staff discount at currys)

I have Asus HERO VI for my 4th gen i7 with SupremeFX on board sound so it was pretty high end at the time.

If anyone can advise me for any headphones or any amp recommendations on my requirements that would be great. Thank you in advance.
 
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V moda boom pro sold out last week from the main supplier and currently showing unavailable. Other site are showing pre-order. 12 sold in one day, on 11th April.

I purchased a Blue snowball Ice to go with some earphones, it was useless on my desk as picked up mechanical keyboard clicks and mouse clicks more than my voice. Great quality but required a boom to work properly (for gaming at least)

The snowball was returned and I purchased a Sennheiser Game one headset. This sounded great, mic and audio quality but was not comfortable on my ears at all as the cups were too narrow and the tension crushed my ears. That too was returned

I then puchased some AKG K702 headphones, a V moda boom pro and TA3F 3 Pin Mini XLR to 3.5mm Female adapter. The headphones are fantasitc sounding but have added some foam to the headband, no problem on my ears at all. The leather headband has no padding and I have a shaved head so all the pressure was on one point, not much pressure, but still pressure.

Still awaiting for the boom pro and adapter to arrive which should be Monday or Tuesday

I have the headphones running off a Xonar Essence ST soundcard using headphone out on +12dB gain. They are easily drivable on this soundcard at +12dB I have them on 25% volume which is loud enough. When the Boom Pro arrives i'll turn then up a bit and use the inline volume control. Also worthwhilst at least trying Dolby Atmos for headphone from the Dolby Access store. I purchased it for £11 as COD MW supports it and sounds quite a lot better, without the overprocessed echo effect of Dolby headphone or DTS

With regard to your asks, I would stick to the AKGs for if its sound stage you are mainly looking for, though I have not tried the rest.
Others may be able to comment on the DAC, but I will dare say they will be loud enough connected to your motherboard sound at around 80%
 
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Yeh saw they are all pre-order. That's good advice, I know I defiantly don't want to bother with the snowball.

That's a pretty good sound card though, still.

I tried DTS:S trial for warzone myself, still useless hearing people run up to you but It's the game's problem isn't it.
I used the dolby atmos trial a long time ago.

I'm leaning towards AKG's / SH9500's atm.
 
Wanting to do the same but hard to justify £60 for a mic. you think its well worth? :D. I want to try the v boom pro first if I don't like it send it back before ordering for double the price. Just need to wait for stock.
 
If primarily goal is the best details, then AKG K702 or ATH-AD500 would be top choises for standard HRTF sound.
Though if you would want to have also some bass, those are kinda "thin" in that department.
And AKG's "automatically adjusting" headband relying also on pressure to keep cups positioned might feel somewhat "compressive" on bigger head.
Also elastic strings part of that automatic adjustment might get stretched.

Beyer is step ahead in comfort with good old manually adjusted headband.
Though sound isn't as accurate/neutral with clearly above neutral bass punch.

Then again Creative's Super X-Fi tech has also profiles for taking peculiarities of headphones into account to better keep sound positioning accuracy.
So that could change situation making DT990 comparable to top choises.

Differences in listener's head shape affect also to specifics of cues needed by brain for positioning sounds accurately.
Darn poor state we're in PC gaming audio...
Comparable to pre 3D card era in graphics.
 
hardyxd said:
I am told that I need separate input into the dac/amp for mic due to the modmic, not a combined one like the SB G1 with just 1 hole for both which is for a gaming headset.
Click to expand...

I own a few of the products you referenced, including recently picking up the Modmic Uni - although I've not really used it yet. You can get a Y adapter to use the Modmic with consoles or where there is a combined input. Athlion sell one although it's not the only option. I did some tests with them and they are easily the best mic I have owned although there is a lot to be said for the convenience of a headset, and not having to deal with the extra wire.

With regards to the Headphones I currently own the AKG K702 and Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro (250Ohm). I used to own the Sennheiser HD 598s (obviously similar to the 599s) which were my first decent headphones and entry point. I only sold them as I had too many headphones to justify keeping. All 5 of these headphones you've linked to are highly regarded and I can't imagine you'd go wrong with any of them. The SHP9500 for years have always come up in the 'best under $100' recommendations although there is often a price difference between the US and UK.

However of those 3 headphones the K702 are my favourites. Soundstage for days and so often I can hear sounds that make me think something is behind me. I love the neutrality, wide soundstage and clarity. The DT990 Pros provide a more fun sound with stronger bass. They are both comfortable although the K702 have a suspension system with an elastic loop which will degrade with time (I wrote a thread on that this week!). The Sennheiser HD 598's had less soundstage but crystal clear and again quite a neutral sound. All 3 are great for gaming. The Sennheiser HD 598's were the most comfortable because of barely any clamping pressure, very light and wonderful large oval earcups. Again I don't think there's a bad choice here.

Regarding the DAC/AMP. Is it just for PC gaming, and does it need to be external? I not that aware of many budget DAC/AMPs although for multiformat gaming the G6 is always recommended. The G3 you've linked to sees to have good reviews but I don't know much about it.
 
I see that the G3 is more for improving console audio and "bad" laptop audio. So not really needed for PC since I did buy a high end mobo in 2013.
I will be upgrading cpu/mobo when ryzen 4000s come out later this year so the onboard audio should be good really.

Yeh the dac/amp is just for gaming.

I feel like it would only be getting an upgrade from buying at least the G6/X3 or SB X AE-5. I have seen z reviews guy on youtube talk about that having an internal sound card is a nono since all the interference inside a PC, it's better to have an external since you can move it away a little bit. Is that outdated now or still a thing?

People on reddit are saying X3 is cleaner G6 is louder. Although the G3/G6 does have sound EQ for footsteps which sounded good on the aussie guys review although he was comparing it to bad laptop audio.

I am more confused now than before I wrote this due to mixed feedback. Although my friend has the dt 990 pro and says he loves them and used some pliers to relieve some of the clamping force.

I do have a 2 to 1 splitter for my headphones it came with the PC360 many years ago.
 
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hardyxd said:
...Yeh the dac/amp is just for gaming.

I feel like it would only be getting an upgrade from buying at least the G6/X3 or SB X AE-5. I have seen z reviews guy on youtube talk about that having an internal sound card is a nono since all the interference inside a PC, it's better to have an external since you can move it away a little bit. Is that outdated now or still a thing?
Click to expand...

Sorry my question was more; is it just for PC gaming or do you need something that works for Xbox, PS4 and/or Switch as well? It always far easier to find audio solutions that tick all boxes just for one format. Particularly on PC where so much choice is available. If you game equally across consoles and PC the G6 is a arguably a better choice of those 3 (although all good) because of the Dolby Digital decoding and Optical in (still vital for getting 5.1 out of XBO/PS4).

Regarding the DT990 Pro the 'clamp' is stronger than the Sennheisers or AKGs but still quite comfortable. I imagine they will bend/wear/stretch with time anyway. I haven't personally had to bend them but obviously everyone is different. My biggest gripe with the DT 990 Pros is the coiled, non-removable cable. That thing is a minor annoyance when it falls off the desk. There is a special edition of the DT 990 Pros (only sold through an Amazon reseller in the UK) which apparently has a straight cable.

I think there are many reasons people have moved on from internal soundcards, but for me personally I would still very much consider one. Particularly if I mainly (or only) gamed on PC. I've had a number of internal soundcards over the years and only ever experienced internal interference once (the ASUS ROG Xonar Phoebus). But there is no doubt that external DAC/AMPs just have far more versatility and use when gaming on multiple formats.
 
hardyxd said:
Wanting to do the same but hard to justify £60 for a mic. you think its well worth? :D. I want to try the v boom pro first if I don't like it send it back before ordering for double the price. Just need to wait for stock.
Click to expand...

Probably not, unless you are doing more voice recording stuff in vlogs or signing I wouldnt both. I just went for the boom pro because it seemed like the easiest thing to connect to headphones without much additional cable mess or weight and it was only £25
I highly doubt people will even notice in games if my mic sounds better at all that my Sennheiser PC31 mic that I hadded a pop filter too (some foam packing with 2 O rings around)
People did instantly notice the load key and mouse clicks that the Blue picked up on my than my voice. Needless to say, for gaming you need the mic near your mouth rather than near the keyboard & mouse!
 
I did reference the 990 DT edition in the original post which I would go for over the PRO for those reasons yeh, more comfort and the wire.

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/t...-vs-akg-k702/371/332?usage=9287&threshold=0.1
Pretty similiar. More bass in AKG more treble in SHP. excellent imaging and soundstage in both. The design I do like the SHP more though due to the headband and it looks a bit more pretty but that's only minor. I've heard the pads on the K702 are amazing though.
I might wait until SHP is on offer. They are super cheap in US which is not fair! also if you order from aliexpress 20-40 day delivery can get for super cheap but that is not for me I like a good return policy!
 
hardyxd said:
I have seen z reviews guy on youtube talk about that having an internal sound card is a nono since all the interference inside a PC, it's better to have an external since you can move it away a little bit. Is that outdated now or still a thing?

Although my friend has the dt 990 pro and says he loves them and used some pliers to relieve some of the clamping force.
Click to expand...
Most of "audiophiles" likely wouldn't know the difference between AC and DC even if first sticked mains AC live wire in one hand+neutral to other and then repeating that with rectified voltage.
Because they certainly seem oblivious of basic "mavity exists" level physics...

Sure there's electromagnetic radiation inside PC case, but main problem is in integrated sound cards situated on very cramped motherboard full of power and signal wiring.
Well designed sound card on its own PCB isn't very sensitive to EMI, even without any covers.
Here are some actual measurements:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lFGmwmpj...WdA6MIEsDpluRruwCLcB/s1600/LOAD+Composite.png
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-E-k5NQms...cB/s1600/24-bit_100_CPU_%2B_GPU+Composite.png
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4hvDrn26...dsACLcB/s1600/LOAD+24-96_J-Test+Composite.png
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/04/retro-measure-2002-lynx-l22-pci-audio.html

And sound card being external isn't any magical release from same design requirements.
I mean why there are USB (galvanic) isolators, if external sounds cards are free from interference?
Some people with fashionable lot less features than in sound card USB "DACs" have needed such to stop interference!
And actually our environment is full of all kind electromagnetic radiation starting from mains signal and ever increasing with the amount of wireless stuff.
Even human body acts as antenna for those: Touching oscilloscope's probe with finger gives AC frequency signal.

Though depending on usage external USB sound card can have major benefits in other areas:
It can be moved easily between PCs/places or possibly used with consoles.
Also if your keyboard doesn't have dedicated volume control, USB sound card can offer it unlike internal sound card.


Studio use aimed Pro-version has some amount higher clamping force than "normal" Edition.
Though actual head band inside cushion is similarly made of spring steel and can be bent to loosen it without risk of it snapping in two.
Edition has lighter clamping force than AKGs.
I own K702, K712 and DT990 Edition.
 
hardyxd said:
Hi All

I am wanting to replace my Sennheiser PC360. I had the GAME ONE before, but my now wife, hoovered the cable a few years ago before crying. with some better headphones+modmic. I have been doing plenty research but keep going round in circles.

Looking to get v moda boom pro or modmic 4, due to cost. Keeping it below £60 for a mic instead of a blue yeti. The cheap usb desk mic's, without arm seem to have a lot of feedback but its only the modmic 4 which has unidirectional mic option out of these but also has omni.

For headphones, I want mainly for gaming, audio fidelity competitive fps mainly footstep pinpointing and general use. Comfort is important to me since I have a slightly bigger head than normal.

My research says I need treble, imaging and sound-stage to achieve this.
I do like open back since it's what I'm used too.

I have narrowed down to these headphones
- Philips SHP9500 £110
- AKG702 £110
- DT 990 EDITION £130-140 32/250 ohm
- Audio Technica AD500X £122
- Sennheiser HD 599 £122 - kind of want to try another brand but these are too comfy

I'm not wanting to spend more than £140-150ish on the headphones, closer to £100 the better.

If I get 1 of the above with the modmic. I am seeing that I will need a headphone dac+amp? But I want a budget one for around £50-60ish ideally.
I am told that I need separate input into the dac/amp for mic due to the modmic, not a combined one like the SB G1 with just 1 hole for both which is for a gaming headset.

I'm looking at:
- SoundBlaster G3 - https://uk.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-g3 £50

Is there anything better for under £60 out there, do I really need to push for SB X3 or SBX G6?

I have been looking at headphones reddit -
https://sites.google.com/view/headphoneadvice/gaming/category-100-400 this is Reddit's advice for $100-400 for gaming but it seem's outdated, especially on the AMP recommendations.

BACKUP no hassle all in ones. Both closed back though.
- Logitech Gaming Pro X £90 (staff discount at currys)
- HyperX Cloud Alpha S £90 (staff discount at currys)

I have Asus HERO VI for my 4th gen i7 with SupremeFX on board sound so it was pretty high end at the time.

If anyone can advise me for any headphones or any amp recommendations on my requirements that would be great. Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...

where did you find HD599 for £122?
 
hardyxd said:
I did reference the 990 DT edition in the original post which I would go for over the PRO for those reasons yeh, more comfort and the wire.
Click to expand...

Woops. You did. Either way the DT 990 Pro isn't an uncomfortable headset in my view. I can wear them for hours for gaming.

The US gets more choice as well as better prices, which is to be expected. But it does make some reviews incredibly irrelevant when you're looking at something that's 2 or 3 times the price of their product. A lot of the reviews of the SB X7 said a Shiit stack was much better value at $200 instead of $400. But of course for me they were both the same price when I bought (£240). Which really affects any consideration. The US consumers do sometimes have to pay more for european products. But yea the SHP9500 seems a bit pricey given the competition.

EsaT said:
Most of "audiophiles" likely wouldn't know the difference between AC and DC even if first sticked mains AC live wire in one hand+neutral to other and then repeating that with rectified voltage.
Because they certainly seem oblivious of basic "mavity exists" level physics...
Click to expand...

:) I like Zeos. He knows his stuff although his reviews are a mess and he clearly can't be bothered to fact-check things. His review of the X7 was shocking. He talked about sound quality for all of a few seconds - 40mins in, couldn't be bothered to try the Windows Driver package and compared SBX to just equalisation - something you can adjust in with the equaliser. It's interesting because for a long-time he has hated 'gamer' products yet gave glowing reviews of the Hyper X Alphas and Coolermaster MH751/752s (both Takstar rebrands). So I think you just have to be careful with some of his recommendations particularly if you're coming at this for an angle where you want something for gaming.
 
Timber said:
The US gets more choice as well as better prices, which is to be expected.
Click to expand...
AKGs are lot cheaper in Europe than US.
But Audio-Technica is again reverse.


Timber said:
I like Zeos. He knows his stuff although his reviews are a mess and he clearly can't be bothered to fact-check things. His review of the X7 was shocking. He talked about sound quality for all of a few seconds - 40mins in, couldn't be bothered to try the Windows Driver package and compared SBX to just equalisation - something you can adjust in with the equaliser. It's interesting because for a long-time he has hated 'gamer' products yet gave glowing reviews of the Hyper X Alphas and Coolermaster MH751/752s (both Takstar rebrands). So I think you just have to be careful with some of his recommendations particularly if you're coming at this for an angle where you want something for gaming.
Click to expand...
Maybe Kingston had some advertising campaign money going in his direction?
But typical gaming stuff is pretty much garbage.
Like big hype Asus Strix, Razer and Steelseries basically having the worst frequency responses here:
https://nl.hardware.info/artikel/60...-luisteren-testresultaten---frequentierespons
Rollercoaster's loop wouldn't look out of place in those curves...
And already that Turd Beach is horrible "head in bucket under water" immersion junk for gaming.

Stereo sound like music forgives awfully lot, but binaural sound forgives very little.
Anyway audiophilery is denying mavity exists even dropped brick to head.

Probably isn't bad guess that he considers Audio-Technica M50 very good like most.
While its frequency response is quite inaccurate and because of that reproduction of simultaneous different frequencies certainly bad.
While inertia always causes some initial overshoot, that's just ridiculous and 300Hz square wave should settle on flat wave top instead of such slow climb from canyon:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudioTechnicaATHM50x.pdf
Such headphone is simply incapable to properly reproducing spatial cues because of signal's distortion.
 
EsaT said:
AKGs are lot cheaper in Europe than US.
Click to expand...

Yep, I did go on to say that sometimes Europe wins on price; like AKG. But I think in general the US have more choice. More DAC/AMPs, Headphones and Mass Drop that often make the US prices cheaper.

EsaT said:
Maybe Kingston had some advertising campaign money going in his direction?
Click to expand...

No, I don't think so. The Takstars are generally very well reviewed budget headphones. And therefore the Cloud Alpha and MH751/752s are also well regarded. I did buy the MH751s last year (for the 5% of times I need a mic/headset). And they were awesome. Sure not as nice as my K712 Pro etc, but a really solid, wide soundstage, closed back headphone that actually came alive on the X7. Unfortunately the screw came loose on the right-side so I refunded, rather than replace under RMA (wasn't confident the same issue wouldn't happen again). They were also the most comfortable headphones I ever tried. Outstanding comfort and so soft. I did replace a few months ago with the AKG K361 and Modmic Uni which are better in every way. But also cost me two and a half times more.

Although I think gaming headsets were often garbage I do sense there have been some brands moving in the right direction.

EsaT said:
Probably isn't bad guess that he considers Audio-Technica M50 very good like most.
Click to expand...

No he hates them. Although he likes the M40, once they have been modded with bigger, more comfy pads and replaced the stock cable. I've heard this a number of times that people prefer the Audio Technica M40s (once modded) and if you add a mic are a great gaming headset. Although a lot of people recommend the AKG K361/K371's over the M40's now. Including Zeos who rated both very highly.
 
I went with. Soundblaster G6, Modmic 4 and DT 990 Edition -these feel amazing so comfy and premium feel come in a nice leather bag.

(ordered K702 prior but I will be returning these) sound is amazing now! I love the "fun" factor. Well worth my money.

I would consider Schitt Fulla 3 if you want to save £30-40 but no stock atm.
 
bit the bullet, amazon. I really like the software that it adds to audio. especially the gains you get for the mic are huge.
 
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