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AMD Zen 3 (5000 Series), rumored 17% IPC gain.

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humbug said:
Matisse 2? no that's just a refresh... if that's happening it may be later next month, Zen 3 is probably not before November / December, perhaps even January.
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Yes,but the rumour is that it is also locked to B550/X570....which makes even less sense. I really hope that isn't true. At least give B450 owners a chance to use all the Zen2 models.
 
CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
It would be! If anything it would make more sense AMD releases clock bumped Zen2 parts for existing users,as higher performing parts,if AMD intends to lockout Zen3.
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Yes if they did that they would be doing the same crappy thing that Intel do for the same crappy reasons and deserve the same criticism. Lets wait and see, we don't even know if Zen 2 will be refreshed yet, its just a rumour.

Anyway... this is a good point, a lot of these older boards cannot support Zen 3, others can disagree but i think that's right, if they had a mix of older boards that could and couldn't that will create confusion, people will buy old boards thinking they will work with Zen 3 and they don't.
AMD will get the blame and the bad press for that, that's the reality, so AMD are covering their arses and i don't blame them. Frankly. 3 years ago AMD were not in a position to make demands of board vendors to bake in 4 generation compatibility, they probably had a hard time convincing them to invest in them at all...

 
NinjaCool said:
I wonder what MSI will do since they did promise support for all future AM4 products for their B450 MAX line of motherboards.
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Maybe they didn't know and just assumed like the rest of us.

Things seem to be up in the air at them moment.

From the out set it was that AM4 was going to last until Zen 3 and Zen 4 was going to be based on AM5.

I took that to believe that an X370 from 2017 would last 4 gens of CPU's.

However that has changed now that we know B450 and X470 and previous have been dropped.

Additionally AMD are not saying if the AM4 socket will be dropped for Zen 4.

So the goal posts have been moved, which is a little bit naughty by AMD.
 
humbug said:
Yes if they did that they would be doing the same crappy thing that Intel do for the same crappy reasons and deserve the same criticism. Lets wait and see, we don't even know if Zen 2 will be refreshed yet, its just a rumour.

Anyway... this is a good point, a lot of these older boards cannot support Zen 3, others can disagree i think that's right, if they had a mix of older boards that could and couldn't that will create confusion, people will buy old boards thinking they will work with Zen 3 and they don't.
AMD will get the blame and the bad press for that, that's the reality, so AMD are covering their arses and i don't blame them. Frankly. 3 years ago AMD were not in a potion to make demands of board vendors to bake in 4 generation compatibility, they probably had a hard time convincing them to invest in them at all...

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It doesn't change the fact that for 12 months the B450 was the mainstream Zen2 chipset. The older owners of the platform are less of the problem here,its the newer people. In the end AMD should know better,especially for its second generation chipsets. Also certainly by 2019,they knew very well what was happening. The same goes with the AMD reference design which all OEMs follow. The difference in price between a 16MB and 32MB chip is probably a dollar,and I doubt the motherboard going up in price another £2 will do anything.

The problem is again lots of X570 motherboards have 16MB BIOS chips,and lots of the better B450 and X470 motherboards have 32MB BIOS chips. Even my "old" B450 motherboard has a 32MB BIOS and a true 6+1 phase VRM. This is why AMD blocking stuff instead of allowing selective upgrades is really weird. It also worrys me for X570,because AMD might release an X670 and B650 and make some excuse they are only partially compatible.

OEMs have no problem adding more features,if they can upsell them.

If AMD had launched a B450X last July with Zen2 and Zen3 support,OEMs would have loved it,as they could launch a new range of motherboards.Recent Zen2 buyers would be happy,and older buyers would have got another generation of upgrades in Zen2. Everyone wins.

opethdisciple said:
Maybe they didn't know and just assumed like the rest of us.
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Or they told MSI it would work,like they told Schenker who is a system integrator,who then proceeded to find out to their surprise yesterday it wouldn't work.
 
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CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
It doesn't change the fact that for 12 months the B450 was the mainstream Zen2 chipset. In the end AMD should know better,especially for its second generation chipsets. Also certainly by 2019,they knew very well what was happening. The same goes with the AMD reference design which all OEMs follow. The difference in price between a 16MB and 32MB chip is probably a dollar,and I doubt the motherboard going up in price another £2 will do anything.

The problem is again lots of X570 motherboards have 16MB BIOS chips,and lots of the better B450 and X470 motherboards have 32MB BIOS chios. Even my "old" B450 motherboard has a 32MB BIOS and a true 6+1 phase VRM. This is why AMD blocking stuff instead of allowing selective upgrades is really weird. It also worrys me for X570,because AMD might release an X670 and B650 and make some excuse they are only partially compatible.

OEMs have no problem adding more features,if they can upsell them.

If AMD had launched a B450X last July with Zen2 and Zen3 support,OEMs would have loved it,as they could launch a new range of motherboards.



Or they told MSI it would work,like they told Schenker who is a system integrator,who then proceeded to find out to their surprise yesterday it wouldn't work.
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In 2016 AMD were 1 inch away from going out of business, when you're in that position you're going to have a hard time convicing board vendors to invest in supporting your new CPU, especially given AMD's Bulldozer fiasco. on top of that also convincing them to bake in 4 years of support, which does cost those vendors more money.... its not happening, and it didn't.
 
humbug said:
In 2016 AMD were 1 inch away from going out of business, when you're in that position you're going to have a hard time convicing board vendors to invest in supporting your new CPU, especially given AMD's Bulldozer fiasco. on top of that also convincing them to bake in 4 years of support, which does cost those vendors more money.... its not happening.
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In 2019 they were not,and this is the problem. Its not the people who bought a B450 in May 2018(although it stings a bit),it's all the people after July 2019 who have a one generation platform. One has to ask why AMD didn't launch a B550 back then,as from what I heard OEMs wanted a mainstream chipset for Zen2. Instead a lot of new and updated B450 motherboards were launched by AIB partners at their own costs. Nothing stopped AMD making a Zen3 certified B450 last year,and branding it differently,or even saying there was no Zen3 support. AMD reads social media and even have gone on record to debunk certain rumours. If they are even telling system integrators one thing,and then doing another,they need to seriously think about their marketing and PR,as it's creating a muddle. This is something which is a continuing problem for AMD,and has contributed to some of those financial woes in the past.

Look at their graphics cards launches,the same mistakes again and again and again. I really don't understand what is happening with them sometimes.

Martini1991 said:
MB's of storage has caused this.
Let that sink in.
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Exactly.
 
CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
In 2019 they were not,and this is the problem. Its not the people who bought a B450 in May 2018(although it stings a bit),it's all the people after July 2019 who have a one generation platform. One has to ask why AMD didn't launch a B550 back then,as from what I heard OEMs wanted a mainstream chipset for Zen2. Instead a lot of new and updated B450 motherboards were launched by AIB partners at their own costs. Nothing stopped AMD making a Zen3 certified B450 last year,and branding it differently,or even saying there was no Zen3 support. AMD reads social media and even have gone on record to debunk certain rumours. If they are even telling system integrators one thing,and then doing another,they need to seriously think about their marketing and PR,as it's creating a muddle. This is something which is a continuing problem for AMD,and has contributed to some of those financial woes in the past.

Look at their graphics cards launches,the same mistakes again and again and again. I really don't understand what is happening with them sometimes.



Exactly.
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I bought my board in 2016, it cannot support Zen 3, ASRock did not bake in 4 years of support.

MSI refreshed their boards and they can support Zen 3.

So here you have two AM4 socket boards, one can support Zen 3, the other cannot, AMD release a new CPU and its an AM4 CPU, i have an AM4 Board, i buy this new CPU, i paid £300 for the CPU, it does not work in my board, it will never work in my AM4 board, who do i blame for that?
 
humbug said:
I bought my board in 2016, it cannot support Zen 3, ASRock did not bake in 4 years of support.

MSI refreshed their boards and they can support Zen 3.

So here you have two AM4 socket boards, one can support Zen 3, the other cannot, AMD release a new CPU and its an AM4 CPU, i have an AM4 Board, i buy this new CPU, i paid £300 for the CPU, it does not work in my board, it will never work in my AM4 board, who do i blame for that?
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But AMD insisted on making B450 the mainstream 2019 chipset - they made that decision,so I have no sympathy for them. Nothing stopping them making a new B450X just for Zen2,as a stop-gap chipset with Zen3 support. Nothing stopping them requiring 32MB BIOSes for X570,etc. Nothing stopping them in the last 12 months saying Zen3 would not work either. So all these actions they decided not to do,so ultimately its on them IMHO. This is why they keep loosing out to Nvidia even when they have decent products,as the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. The problem is they are lucky as Intel hit a bad patch,but when Intel exits this bad patch,they can't get away with marketing like this.

Anyway,this is the way it is now. We just have to be more weary of any claims they make.

Perfect_Chaos said:
Even on AM5 i wouldn't be surprised if they use another excuse for not supporting more than 1-2 upgrades, even if the first boards have plenty of space on the chip
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Agreed,and you can't trust that X570 won't have the same problem,if an X670 appears. AMD says it supports Zen3,but whether all the features will work is another question.
 
Perfect_Chaos said:
Even on AM5 i wouldn't be surprised if they use another excuse for not supporting more than 1-2 upgrades, even if the first boards have plenty of space on the chip
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Looks like your up a creek with no paddle.
Go Intel and get one generation or go Amd and get one but likely more.

We can complain TIL we’re blue or red in the face but historically one or two generations is all you’ve ever had. Bar the odd exception.
 
opethdisciple said:
Bit of role reversal at the moment.

AMD are the Nvidia of the CPU space and can afford to tweak their line up to what ever Intel has to offer to always stay ahead.

Good times, except they are way behind in the GPU space and need to do the same.
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Thing is, 2xxx plus 3xxx lineups are pretty solid already and most of us don't really need a constant upgrade like in the GPU department. :)
 
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