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AMD Zen 3 (5000 Series), rumored 17% IPC gain.

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Doobedoo said:
Looks like your up a creek with no paddle.
Go Intel and get one generation or go Amd and get one but likely more.

We can complain TIL we’re blue or red in the face but historically one or two generations is all you’ve ever had. Bar the odd exception.
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Whilst this is very true, I'm pretty sure I remember AMDs marketing during 2017 saying that the AM4 socket would see 4 generations of CPUs.
 
CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
But AMD insisted on making B450 the mainstream 2019 chipset - they made that decision,so I have no sympathy for them. Nothing stopping them making a new B450X just for Zen2,as a stop-gap chipset with Zen3 support. Nothing stopping them requiring 32MB BIOSes for X570,etc. Nothing stopping them in the last 12 months saying Zen3 would not work either. So all these actions they decided not to do,so ultimately its on them IMHO. This is why they keep loosing out to Nvidia even when they have decent products,as the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. The problem is they are lucky as Intel hit a bad patch,but when Intel exits this bad patch,they can't get away with marketing like this.
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AMD cannot force board vendors to bake in 4 years of support.

If AMD allow mixed AM4 support you will have a situation where people will buy Zen 3 thinking it will work with their board because they are not CAT-THE-FITH or humbug, they are Jonny Normy browsing Rain Forest for a new AM4 CPU and AMD will get the blame and the return bill when Jonny Normy sends it back, AMD will be at fault in his mind, the press will blame AMD for the confusion...

AMD are drawing a line in the sand, its clear cut, only 500 series boards support Zen 3.

That feels crappy, its AMD being crappy....

AMD never said they will support 4 generations of Ryzen, WE surmised that ourselves, AMD never said they would support new Ryzen CPU's on older boards through 2020, again WE surmised that.

Its still AMD's fault, fine... they will take it on the chin, they know they have to, but you an i are a fraction of their customer base, at least the vast majority will not be confused by mixed support and end up buying things that then don't work.
 
opethdisciple said:
Whilst this is very true, I'm pretty sure I remember AMDs marketing during 2017 saying that the AM4 socket would see 4 generations of CPUs.
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Yeah I get it but what are people going to do about it? Look it’s not ideal, I would like 4 generations too it’s better for everybody that that would be the case. We’ve had a good run so far imo but let’s just give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. Then you can all get your pitchforks out, heck I don’t own one but I’ll buy one just to join the cause. Always wanted too if I’m honest :D.
 
CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
The problem is if the B550 was out in 2019,then it wouldn't be a problem. But the B450 was the mainstream for Zen2,so 2/3 of the way through the lifespan of Zen2,AMD state,"oh,btw,no zen3 support". They should have just stated it at launch and be done with it.

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Then,with slides like that people put a lot of trust in them(yes,there was probably a disclaimer).



It should be doable with the 16mb BIOS chips,as many X570 motherboards also use the smaller size. Companies such as MSI do BIOS flashback, so don't need to have full support for old CPUs with a Zen3 BIOS as you don't need a CPU to run the update!
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I mean if you go by what that slide literally says, then AM4 support would have ended in late 2019. Also X570 does not officially have to support Ryzen 1000 or any of the bulldozer AM4 CPUs that came before. That way those OEMs could get away with using 16MB as they were required to support only two generations of Ryzen at launch. I have feeling that they will also run into some problems if Zen4 is also AM4, but very likely it won't be so that will save them the problems.
 
humbug said:
AMD cannot force board vendors to bake in 4 years of support.

If AMD allow mixed AM4 support you will have a situation where people will buy Zen 3 thinking it will work with their board because they are not CAT-THE-FITH or humbug, they are Jonny Normy browsing Rain Forest for a new AM4 CPU and AMD will get the blame and the return bill when Jonny Normy sends it back, AMD will be at fault in his mind, the press will blame AMD for the confusion...

AMD are drawing a line in the sand, its clear cut, only 500 series boards support Zen 3.

That feels crappy, its AMD being crappy....

AMD never said they will support 4 generations of Ryzen, WE surmised that ourselves, AMD never said they would support new Ryzen CPU's on older boards through 2020, again WE surmised that.

Its still AMD's fault, fine... they will take it on the chin, they know they have to, but you an i are a fraction of their customer base, at least the vast majority will not be confused by mixed support and end up buying things that then don't work.
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Again nothing to do with years of support,it's what they did for Zen2 which is the problem here. They waited for 12 months. That is 100% their fault. Nothing stopped them releasing B550 last year. They released a B450 for Zen+ when it launched,but did nothing for Zen2. Nothing stopping them making a B450X with certified support for Zen3. They did nothing. They made the reference design for the platform...they could have specified larger BIOSes like Martini said(and he was correct) and they did nothing.

For 12 months they could have stepped in, and said something and chose to not do something despite having people on social media.

Then they for 12 months said nothing to end customers and also were not 100% accurate to OEMs about support.

cxvquxu.png

They are at fault here. Its the same with all their GPU launches...they screw all that up,and its never their fault. It's never AMD's fault....yet Intel and Nvidia get criticised for everything. This is entirely their fault.

Even X399 owners,were left high and dry.

Socket 754,AM2,AM3,FM1 and FM2 owners were left high and dry. They have a history of doing this. Now they look to be ahead(well with Zen3 they will I expect),now they have changed tact.

Anyway,what has happened,has happened. People will now have to accept AMD did this,and not to believe their marketing,or give them the benefit of the doubt,just like Intel or Nvidia.

Killer7xx said:
I mean if you go by what that slide literally says, then AM4 support would have ended in late 2019. Also X570 does not officially have to support Ryzen 1000 or any of the bulldozer AM4 CPUs that came before. That way those OEMs could get away with using 16MB as they were required to support only two generations of Ryzen at launch. I have feeling that they will also run into some problems if Zen4 is also AM4, but very likely it won't be so that will save them the problems.
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The bar ends at the end of 2020. I also don't understand why they didn't just specifiy larger BIOS chips,as it hardly will matter if a motherboard costs £2 more!

Zen4 is probably DDR5,so I expect Zen3 to be the last AM4 generation. Maybe Zen4 will have a hybrid memory controller,but DDR4 might be a bottleneck.
 
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_Cereal_ said:
AMD outdoing Intel lol, how ironic, not even the fanboys are gonna be able to spin this, this from someone who owns a AMD system.
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This is why I pay little heed to what is not already here and now; why the notion of 'future proofing' is always 'subject to change'.

opethdisciple said:
More shocking for me than lack of B450 support is the lack of X470 support.
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That was a little surprising but more money for those that make this kind of decision.
 
Apparently someone decompiled the BIOS of their X370 motherboard,which supports Bristol Ridge to Zen2:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/gfugqr/i_just_opened_the_last_asus_bios_for_the_x370/

It's well under 16MB.8MB~11MB for BIOSes.


opethdisciple said:
They have already confirmed full support for 5 series boards. (X570 and B550)

X570 is not even 1 year old yet. It was released what June/July last year.
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Support,not full support. So if they release an X670 or B650,what if the Zen3 CPUs have additional features which work only on the newer chipsets?? Things like improved boost mechanisms,overclocking,etc.
 
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