Boris Johnson is considering a trade in price of £6K for an EV

[Haggisman]

I agree TBH. A cheap city car with a realistic 50 mile max range which isn't lethal if you do take it on a motorway (ie. can do 70 and doesn't drop to a crawl going up a hill!).

This is actually one of the things I like most about an EV - instant torque, and always in the right "gear". I've never had a problem with hills in the Zoe - there isn't a noticeable difference in acceleration between flat/up hill.

Are they actually happy with it, though, or do many just see it as their only option, and how much of that is down to the market forcing it on them?

Clearly they are, otherwise they wouldn't do it . Obviously they would be happier if the cost was lower (who wouldn't), but I don't see how "the market (is) forcing it on them"? There are plenty of other options; using a different type of finance, e.g. personal loan, not being a badge snob and buying a cheaper car, having a used car and running it for longer instead of "buying" a new car every couple of years etc. Unfortunately "keeping up with the Joneses" (or rather showing off to your mates, it's just another aspect of the facebook generation "constantly show off how great your life is" attitude) has it's price.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Except no one on here is saying everyone needs to change their lifestyle?

Wasn't aware I'd limited my statement to here.

Is encouraging EV adopion going to force change on anyone's lifestyle? Would have thought new rules on driving noxy diesals in cities etc would have a bigger impact.

No it won't, which is why I liken it to veganism. The cost and availability of meat would affect that far more than anyone bleating on about saving the planet, or how much less their lifestyle choices cost. That doesn't stop the preachers, though.

I can't say I noticed any lifestyle change with the Model 3 or either of the two Leaf's I had previously.

Every EV owner I've met seems to have made it a second job. They're forever compiling spreadsheets on the costs of running, where the best charging stations are, what routes in which countries have charging and how it will affect their itinerary, who in the office still drives a diesel and what they need to do to promote it further... Not a single meeting goes by in which one of them doesn't find a way to segway into how awesome EVs are... It's as if life was now a Linus video, and sponsored by Nissan Leaf.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Clearly they are, otherwise they wouldn't do it . Obviously they would be happier if the cost was lower (who wouldn't), but I don't see how "the market (is) forcing it on them"?

Forcing perhaps not the best term... heavily influencing? Persuading? Basically making the other options as unattractive as they can, with surcharges, handling fees and whatever.

A bit like how some carriers don't offer certain phones to buy outright and require you take out a new contract if you want them, or if they are available they're hideously expensive. I know of one recently that was available, but not even advertised on their site. You only found out about it through one specific comparison site.

Unfortunately "keeping up with the Joneses" (or rather showing off to your mates, it's just another aspect of the facebook generation "constantly show off how great your life is" attitude) has it's price.

But what happens when The Jonses still own their car after five years, while you have nothing to show for it but an empty wallet and a pile of PCP payment receipts?

 

[Haggisman]

Forcing perhaps not the best term... heavily influencing? Persuading? Basically making the other options as unattractive as they can, with surcharges, handling fees and whatever.

A bit like how some carriers don't offer certain phones to buy outright and require you take out a new contract if you want them, or if they are available they're hideously expensive. I know of one recently that was available, but not even advertised on their site. You only found out about it through one specific comparison site.

As long as people keep buying them then that's not going to change. If you're (not you personally, but A N Customer) not happy with what's on offer, don't buy it - if dealers don't sell any cars, they'll change their product.

Besides, as far as I can tell, most people do like PCP/leasing as it's "cheap" and convenient and they can get an "ooh, shiny and new" every few years with minimal initial outlay. They see they can afford the monthly payments and that's about as far as it goes - ignoring the fact that in 2,3,4 years time they will have paid all that money and have nothing to show for it.

But what happens when The Jonses still own their car after five years, while you have nothing to show for it but an empty wallet and a pile of PCP payment receipts?

Then you'd hope people would learn their lesson, but for many, it seems that having the latest and greatest is more important than financial sense.

 

[chorse]

I think the saving the planet thing is a bit of 'distraction'. It's at least as much to do with reducing local pollution in urban environments, and trying to shift legacy auto towards the future. ICE manufacturers would sell hybrids as a cash cow for decades if given the opportunity. They need the nudge to invest in the future, otherwise all auto will be made in China in 10 years if they are not careful.

If you live in a flat, need a van or eat motorway miles, then obviously you need a different car. Otherwise it's highly likely an EV will be better in every respect, especially when price parity is reached which is edging close.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I’m not even sure it’s about making financial sense. Contrary to popular belief a significant population have huge disposable incomes and for them PCP makes sense. Can you get it cheaper by buying outright and selling privately every few years? Yes but you also take more risk and you need to be able to finance the whole cost of the car.

Even with the disposable income most people don’t have the means to finance £30k in an unsecured loan let alone pay cash for the car. PCP makes it easy with low monthly’s as you effectively just pay the depreciation and profit margin the for the finance company.

At the end of the day these new car buyers also enable the second hand market, if didn’t pcp and change their car all the time the used market would suffer greatly.

It’s no surprise used prices are climbing as the the sale of new vehicles reduces.

 

[jpaul]

maybe people will become more prudent post covid ... which professions are wholly recesssion proof, everyone's thinking about it,
and, financial liabilities/risk people want to incur will reduce.

 

[ttaskmaster]

They see they can afford the monthly payments and that's about as far as it goes

That's a whole new concern, but I'm also wary of what excessive borrowing has done in terms of credit crunches and recessions. Buying outright, I may have to save up a load of cash, but I'll not be living in fear of having everything taken off me if something outside of my control goes badly wrong.

If you live in a flat, need a van or eat motorway miles, then obviously you need a different car. Otherwise it's highly likely an EV will be better in every respect, especially when price parity is reached which is edging close.

It still needs the charging infrastructure which, for a lot of places round here, would mean on-street charging for all the terraced properties without driveways... and you can bet there'll be a lot of vandalism.

 

[lordrobs]

Every EV owner I've met seems to have made it a second job. They're forever compiling spreadsheets on the costs of running, where the best charging stations are, what routes in which countries have charging and how it will affect their itinerary, who in the office still drives a diesel and what they need to do to promote it further... Not a single meeting goes by in which one of them doesn't find a way to segway into how awesome EVs are... It's as if life was now a Linus video, and sponsored by Nissan Leaf.

I must admit that does sound familiar!

 

[chaparral]

Id love an EV but with no drive or garage, where do I charge it?

Just park it and charge it on someone else's driveway

 

[Journey]

Just park it and charge it on someone else's driveway

I let my neighbor charge his PHEV on my drive, as he can't get a charge point installed until August/September.

 

[chaparral]

It still needs the charging infrastructure which, for a lot of places round here, would mean on-street charging for all the terraced properties without driveways... and you can bet there'll be a lot of vandalism.

I can see it being many years before a decent charging infrastructure is in place..

Guernsey where i live still only has two 7.2kw car charging points in the whole island and there right next to each other and that even if you can get parking there as there classed as 3 hour parking places for any electric car even if it not being charged

 

[Journey]

Guernsey where i live

...and has about as many miles of road as a decent sized housing estate, doesn't require that many charge points. Less than <65,000 people, and <22,000 households, of which more than 85% have off-street parking.

 

[silvagti]

I suppose my thoughts would be that I don't think many people driving about in a car with a value under £6k are going to be likely to contemplate spending ~£30k cash buying a new electric car?

Plus you'd probably also need to factor in the cost of getting the charging infrastructure installed on your driveway/garage.

It still feels too early in the day to be switching away from petrol yet for most people IMO.

 

[chaparral]

...and has about as many miles of road as a decent sized housing estate, doesn't require that many charge points. Less than <65,000 people, and <22,000 households, of which more than 85% have off-street parking.

And them few miles of roads make are government over 20 million a year on vehicle fuel tax/duty

 

[Journey]

And them few miles of roads make are government over 20 million a year on vehicle fuel tax/duty

What has that go to do with lack of charging points? Why try and change the subject? What is the weekly mileage of the average driver on Guernsey, according to the traffics and highway services it is less than 4,000 per year, or 76 miles per week. If you were daft enough to buy a Telsa Model 3 long range you could charge it roughly once every three weeks.

 

[ttaskmaster]

What has that go to do with lack of charging points?

Quite a lot, actually.
Chap's point is the government running an incentive scheme to encourage people to buy these EVs, but not implementing the infrastructure to support said EVs by spending that aforementioned 20mil.

 

[chorse]

I'm not sure I would agree that goverment is not willing and able to expand infrastructure in line with increased sales. it's not rocket science. Takes a couple of days to install a charger.

 

[Meatball]

I suppose my thoughts would be that I don't think many people driving about in a car with a value under £6k are going to be likely to contemplate spending ~£30k cash buying a new

I’m one of these people. My car is worth 1.5-2k at most and my next car will be electric. The monthly upkeep of my current car (fuel, tax, servicing / maintenance) is working out more than a PCP on a electric car. Financially it doesn’t make sense for me to PCP a combustion car as I’ll need to add £200 for fuel (20k miles per annum.) I do want to reduce my carbon footprint and I’m lucky to have charger points at work and a driveway at home.

 

[silvagti]

I’m one of these people. My car is worth 1.5-2k at most and my next car will be electric. The monthly upkeep of my current car (fuel, tax, servicing / maintenance) is working out more than a PCP on a electric car. Financially it doesn’t make sense for me to PCP a combustion car as I’ll need to add £200 for fuel (20k miles per annum.) I do want to reduce my carbon footprint and I’m lucky to have charger points at work and a driveway at home.

Fair enough. I may be wrong with my initial assumption