So, what is this going to achieve then?

fez said:
What if I told you that the worst performing group in schools was white males. I assume that isn't racist because its white males suffering? What about the fact that the highest performing are asian? Is that because they are getting preferential treatment?
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I know what you’re trying to say but ultimately it’s really not relevant to the issue at hand. The issue being: despite laws, black people are treated in a discriminate matter in certain circumstances. That’s the discrete issue that is being raised by supporters of the movement. It’s not about white people, or Asian people, it’s specifically about black people. That doesn’t mean other issues don’t matter.

The rest of your post seems to concern wealth distribution, but it’s not so much about wealth distribution as it is being killed unnecessarily by law enforcement, being denied job opportunities because of skin colour etc (which, bizarrely still happens although I cannot say how often). And it goes beyond that in regards to how people are treated in day to day life, in a manner which cannot be governed by law.

This recent example is the sort of ‘soft racism’ that is being tackled:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-53064929

With that said, I agree with @Koalaboy that ‘shame culture’ is generally toxic and to be avoided, and this sort of thing damages the BLM movement.
 
Koalaboy said:
All IMHO of course. I don't know if opinions are allowed any more.
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an opinion is allowed as long as you don't push it onto other people. Opinions are now known as views IMO. :p

Narj said:
DO YOU HAVE A LICENCE FOR THAT OPINION SIR???!!!!
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Do you have a licence for the licence to give your opinion on asking for a licence for their opinion?
 
If I was a black guy Id be embarrassed by the amount of patronising and attention from virtue signallers being slung my way.

Surely for true equally race needs to not even come up as a subject at all, everyone is just seen as the same. This stuff is making an even bigger divide.
 
Nasher said:
If I was a black guy Id be embarrassed by the amount of patronising and attention from virtue signallers being slung my way.

Surely for true equally race needs to not even come up as a subject at all, everyone is just seen as the same. This stuff is making an even bigger divide.
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Social media is the catalyst for agendas on both sides. It needs switching off.
 
Wasn't the point of kneel in the US being a big deal is because they play there National Anthem before any kind of event? Hence protesting whilst its being played is a bigger deal.
Shudders, imagine God Save the queens played before everything.
 
Nitefly said:
I know what you’re trying to say but ultimately it’s really not relevant to the issue at hand. The issue being: despite laws, black people are treated in a discriminate matter in certain circumstances. That’s the discrete issue that is being raised by supporters of the movement. It’s not about white people, or Asian people, it’s specifically about black people. That doesn’t mean other issues don’t matter.
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Of course its relevant. You cannot just decide something is happening without any sort of context or holistic approach.

When 2 people have the exact same experience and one claims racism and the other doesn't then you perhaps need to look at other explanations. When those two people are both black and have very different views on the matter, that tells you something.

I'm not saying for a second that BLM is saying other issues don't matter. What I'm saying is that the crap that people seem to be latching on to are quite often nothing to do with racism and when you attribute everything to race, you excuse and ignore the actual core of the issue.

I know there is still prejudice in a lot of areas of life. That is the same for everyone. Everyone discriminates based on their life experiences. I know this is something we can work on but the majority of this BLM feels a bit like worrying about your family photos while your house burns down. We are ignoring the bigger issue.

Nitefly said:
The rest of your post seems to concern wealth distribution, but it’s not so much about wealth distribution as it is being killed unnecessarily by law enforcement, being denied job opportunities because of skin colour etc (which, bizarrely still happens although I cannot say how often). And it goes beyond that in regards to how people are treated in day to day life, in a manner which cannot be governed by law.
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So what happens if we look at the figures and find that if you have similarly poor black and white communities, their deaths at the hands of police are very similar. You've decided its a race issue when its not and you are focussing on completely the wrong problem. The police have a general problem in the US. They kill a LOT of white people as well. If you take the police crime stats along racial lines, the police kill far more white people than black proportionally.

So America is 13% black roughly. Between 1980 and 2008, black people committed 52% of the homicides in the US. What tends to get you in trouble with the police? Crime. If you decide that this is a racist police issue then there is no other reason for black people committing a disproportionately high amount of crime other than black people being super violent. Do you see why we can't look at a complex multi-faceted issue through the singular lens of race...

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime

Read that.

BLM was all kicked off again by police brutality. Their main complaint and focus has been a racist police force. Not a police force that has too much power or too little accountability. Racist.
 
Nitefly said:
I know what you’re trying to say but ultimately it’s really not relevant to the issue at hand. The issue being: despite laws, black people are treated in a discriminate matter in certain circumstances. That’s the discrete issue that is being raised by supporters of the movement. It’s not about white people, or Asian people, it’s specifically about black people. That doesn’t mean other issues don’t matter.

The rest of your post seems to concern wealth distribution, but it’s not so much about wealth distribution as it is being killed unnecessarily by law enforcement, being denied job opportunities because of skin colour etc (which, bizarrely still happens although I cannot say how often). And it goes beyond that in regards to how people are treated in day to day life, in a manner which cannot be governed by law.

This recent example is the sort of ‘soft racism’ that is being tackled:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-53064929

With that said, I agree with @Koalaboy that ‘shame culture’ is generally toxic and to be avoided, and this sort of thing damages the BLM movement.
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I agree with this, and it was going to be similar to what I was going to reply with. To add to it, @fez - White males aren't failing behind at school due to the simple fact of them being white. Black people are missing out on opportunities because of the colour of their skin. Do you agree that this is wrong? It's an unfortunate thing that the colour of your skin does matter, and yes there are lots of other factors that cause issues but it's an unfortunate fact that the colour of your skin (that is, being black) can and does hold people back.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
Someone has to care, and if we deem this is a white people against everyone else problem, which it seems to be, then white people have to resolve it.

This wasn't a "find something wrong" situation. It was murder.
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Yes, murder. In a country that isn't the UK. Let the yanks sort their own problems out.

I'm sure no one in the UK is going out protesting the literal slave trade in countries like Libya caused by western nations, so why are we out protesting something that happens on the other side of the Atlantic?
 
Ahleckz said:
I agree with this, and it was going to be similar to what I was going to reply with. To add to it, @fez - White males aren't failing behind at school due to the simple fact of them being white. Black people are missing out on opportunities because of the colour of their skin. Do you agree that this is wrong? It's an unfortunate thing that the colour of your skin does matter, and yes there are lots of other factors that cause issues but it's an unfortunate fact that the colour of your skin (that is, being black) can and does hold people back.
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I dont dispute that there is simple racism at play but how can you dismiss race when it suits and then decide that something else is definitely race. You don't hire someone because they are black thats racism. You don't hire them because you preferred the personality of another candidate, thats not racism.

I have never claimed that racism isn't wrong. Its like any discrimination. The problem is deciding what is racism and what is caused by something else. I have no idea how you can talk about racism without discussing the other explanations.
 
As a straight white British male I am at fault for everyone else's problems in the world and especially those ones that happened centuries before I was born, I just wonder if I'll be alive when it comes full circle?
 
bloodiedathame said:
Congrats on totally missing the point.
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Hes not missing the point though. When you are attacking one side to help another then you are creating another problem that is potentially doing more harm than the good it is creating.

That is very much what is happening at then moment (i'm not talking about on this forum). White people, and men in particular are under attack and lets be honest, its mainly other white people trying to virtue signal or stir things up for their own gains (the media).

Its about power. Not necessarily about the pursuit of racial equality. I'm saying that about both sides as well. There are plenty of white people who are loving the attention they are getting for telling every man and his dog that they are racist and part of the problem. Sitting on twitter is giving them that constant validation that they crave and making their lives feel meaningful.
 
GIBURROWS said:
As a straight white British male I am at fault for everyone else's problems in the world and especially those ones that happened centuries before I was born, I just wonder if I'll be alive when it comes full circle?
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Poor you, how do you sleep at night?
 
fez said:
Hes not missing the point though. When you are attacking one side to help another then you are creating another problem that is potentially doing more harm than the good it is creating.

That is very much what is happening at then moment (i'm not talking about on this forum). White people, and men in particular are under attack and lets be honest, its mainly other white people trying to virtue signal or stir things up for their own gains (the media).

Its about power. Not necessarily about the pursuit of racial equality. I'm saying that about both sides as well. There are plenty of white people who are loving the attention they are getting for telling every man and his dog that they are racist and part of the problem. Sitting on twitter is giving them that constant validation that they crave and making their lives feel meaningful.
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Is it really a widely held view though?

Who exactly is under attack and by who? Where is it happening? What are you being stopped from doing?

Why does Twitter represent the view of everyone?


As I sit here I don't feel like anyone is attacking me nor am I paying much attention to what people are saying on Twitter. Life seems alright, would prefer a bit more sun and a bit less virus though.
 
fez said:
Hes not missing the point though. When you are attacking one side to help another then you are creating another problem that is potentially doing more harm than the good it is creating.

That is very much what is happening at then moment (i'm not talking about on this forum). White people, and men in particular are under attack and lets be honest, its mainly other white people trying to virtue signal or stir things up for their own gains (the media).

Its about power. Not necessarily about the pursuit of racial equality. I'm saying that about both sides as well. There are plenty of white people who are loving the attention they are getting for telling every man and his dog that they are racist and part of the problem. Sitting on twitter is giving them that constant validation that they crave and making their lives feel meaningful.
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White people and their way of life aren't being attacked. So try another argument because that one simply doesn't stick.
 
fez said:
Of course its relevant. You cannot just decide something is happening without any sort of context or holistic approach.
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Thanks for your earlier post. I do want to respond but I am short of time so please accept this truncated response.

I think the crux of the ‘purported disagreement’ (to which I suggest there is none) is that BLM is not attempting to present a multi-faceted, detailed analysis of all aspects of racism and all aspects of social positioning and culture. It is simply saying that black people are subject to racism, this is affecting lives, and that this should stop.

There is a definitely a discussion to be had in that the way that this message is being used improperly ‘as a sword’ to attack others, and I also appreciate that this is a narrow point amongst a wider discussion that can be had in respect of racism general. Nevertheless, both things can be legitimately distinguished from the simple, albeit narrow, point at the heart of the campaign, which is very simply that ‘Black Lives Matter’. I’m sure we all agree that black lives do matter and that there is, actually, very limited disagreement.
 
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