Polestar is coming through now.
EV general discussion
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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Soldato
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Some people do buy pew-gots
I totally get it and I’ve done the maths and factor in total cost of ownership. The problem is that the price differential between PCPing a 3 series or equivalent is significantly more than £100 a month fuel saving vs a Tesla.
It all comes about from the reality which is no one pays RRP for an ICE but because of the back log on most decent EVs (e.g. Nero, Kona) and Tesla’s direct sales model lots of people are having to pay RRP for an EV. I can’t imagine anyone getting a ‘discount’ on a Polestar anytime soon, there’s a reason why it’s priced as it is
The point about (particularly) the van market is that the vehicles just aren’t there and the regulations are not taking manufacturers down that path very quickly at all.
I’m well aware of arrival but until they are actually producing vehicles, they are kind of academic.
If you look at the actual behaviour of the mainstream manufacturers, you’ll see they are slowly turning on the tap to meet EU fleet emission regulations to avoid the huge fines. If they were actually making an effort to decarbonise their products the van market would be mostly electric by now.
British Gas have ordered 1,000 Vivaro-e, which looks like a great entrant to the sector. I believe a good chunk of the orders will be delivered this year as well. Things are starting to move quickly.
I'm not sure how quickly a new start-up will be able to ramp up production, but I'd imagine those 10,000 vans might take 10 years to come through.
All good though.
Nope they aim to deliver the lot no later than 2024.
Just checked some lease costs out of interest:
BMW 330d Msport - cheapest lease I can find is £25,413.84 for 48 months (https://www.cars2buy.co.uk/personal-car-leasing/deal/2fe211017eb871a985c0ef28c27a3520b176d3bc)
(does not include many of the options which are standard on the Tesla but ignore that)
Tesla Model 3 SR+ - cheapest lease I can find is £25,314.16 for 48 months (https://www.cars2buy.co.uk/personal-car-leasing/deal/6337360500ae073e7912a9240573b84074a11099)
I was going to suggest the fuel saving would cover the difference but the 330d is actually a bit more expensive to start off with. Over 40,000 miles the Tesla would save you about £4000 in fuel (if you can charge mainly at home). You'd also pay nothing for servicing/brakes etc.. so that's at least another £500-£1000 depending on usage.
So in the region of £5k saved over 4 years, not to mention the evnrionmental benefits of saving many tonnes of CO2.
This isn't a mega-scientific example but I think it shows that the fossil fuel option isn't by default cheaper if you're buying new.
If buying nearly new with a personal loan (as I have historically done) then it needs another year or two for more used electric options.
Note: I'd probably try to buy the Tesla outright rather than pay £25k to rent one for 4 years as I think it's residual would be pretty good - but won't go into that here
BMW 330d Msport - cheapest lease I can find is £25,413.84 for 48 months (https://www.cars2buy.co.uk/personal-car-leasing/deal/2fe211017eb871a985c0ef28c27a3520b176d3bc)
(does not include many of the options which are standard on the Tesla but ignore that)
Tesla Model 3 SR+ - cheapest lease I can find is £25,314.16 for 48 months (https://www.cars2buy.co.uk/personal-car-leasing/deal/6337360500ae073e7912a9240573b84074a11099)
I was going to suggest the fuel saving would cover the difference but the 330d is actually a bit more expensive to start off with. Over 40,000 miles the Tesla would save you about £4000 in fuel (if you can charge mainly at home). You'd also pay nothing for servicing/brakes etc.. so that's at least another £500-£1000 depending on usage.
So in the region of £5k saved over 4 years, not to mention the evnrionmental benefits of saving many tonnes of CO2.
This isn't a mega-scientific example but I think it shows that the fossil fuel option isn't by default cheaper if you're buying new.
If buying nearly new with a personal loan (as I have historically done) then it needs another year or two for more used electric options.
Note: I'd probably try to buy the Tesla outright rather than pay £25k to rent one for 4 years as I think it's residual would be pretty good - but won't go into that here
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You would be comparing with the 330i though surely?
Could do - a little cheaper to lease a 330i rather than a 330d but you'd pay the difference in fuel so the savings made going with the EV option are about the same as the example above
Underboss
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why are an equivalent Hybrid to an EV more expensive ?
Nissan Leaf / Renault Zoe around 7K for a 2015 car
Auris Hybrid want 10K for a 2015 car with around 50/60K miles
Nissan Leaf / Renault Zoe around 7K for a 2015 car
Auris Hybrid want 10K for a 2015 car with around 50/60K miles
With a start-up I think one needs to have high hopes but low expectations. For example, have Tesla always delivered on time?
Building cars is hard.
Supply and demand. The lines cross somewhere
For that price, the Zoe will almost certainly be a battery lease model, not sure about the Leaf?
Underboss
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batteries are owned on the Leaf (well they all seem to be)
The old Zoe’s and Leafs are not great compared to their newer models. The car itself is fine, but the drivetrain is not very capable. That said I still wouldn’t buy a new Leaf.
Toyota hybrids hold their value very well and always have, on top of being very reliable they are often the car of choice now the ULEZ is a thing. You can’t turn a corner in London without seeing one these days.
Toyota hybrids hold their value very well and always have, on top of being very reliable they are often the car of choice now the ULEZ is a thing. You can’t turn a corner in London without seeing one these days.
Underboss
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are you saying i shouldnt buy one ?
if i got a ev id be saying so much money, but cant afford to spend more
if i got a ev id be saying so much money, but cant afford to spend more
No, I’m just saying I wouldn’t buy one because of the capabilities of the drive train and it wouldn’t meet my needs (e.g. range).
The old Zoe also has an odd rapid charging solution which isn’t available everywhere, if it even has it (it was an option).
I also don’t trust the Leaf because of a lack of proper thermal management. That may not turn out to be a problem on the newer cars but there is enough evidence out there that it is on older 24/30 cars. With any leaf you’d need to take car and make sure you don’t buy one with a well used battery. You can check the battery health that with a code reader and the leaf spy app very easily.
I’d happily daily a new Zoe with CCS, it’s a decent car. I’d still avoid the leaf because it’s now the only car which has chademo and no thermal management. Even the new Nissans coming out are going CCS.
The old Zoe also has an odd rapid charging solution which isn’t available everywhere, if it even has it (it was an option).
I also don’t trust the Leaf because of a lack of proper thermal management. That may not turn out to be a problem on the newer cars but there is enough evidence out there that it is on older 24/30 cars. With any leaf you’d need to take car and make sure you don’t buy one with a well used battery. You can check the battery health that with a code reader and the leaf spy app very easily.
I’d happily daily a new Zoe with CCS, it’s a decent car. I’d still avoid the leaf because it’s now the only car which has chademo and no thermal management. Even the new Nissans coming out are going CCS.
Unless you get a very, very early model they are are owned, 2015 one is fine. If you are getting a 24kWh version check the battery health, and see what the range looks like.
neighbour, a few down, just got a xc40 t5 phev plugin hybrid (replacing a mercE as mercenary diagnosed) - haven't seen if they've plugged it in
... but has style/infotainment/comfort versus evoque .. but maybe the ( passé no ?) evoques much cheaper.
Is 330d/i the typical car Model3 users coming from ? -M3/evs are taking some market not just from premium, but other segments too, and, with the BIK present,
(could be saving ~2K..£4kp/a on £40k car depending on tax bracket) that catchment area is larger too, so someone, previously in a company mondeo could be buying in too.
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Polestar 2 IVI - intel h/w collaboration, apollo lake inside, https://blogs.intel.com/iot/2019/05/07/polestar2/, rather than arm.
interesting paper on Android automotive penetration testing https://www.cse.chalmers.se/~andrei/vehits19.pdf , some interesting ideas on malware - soundblaster.
where did m3 thread go ? Tesla Model 3 Prepares to Receive the Heat Pump and Unifies the Battery Design with the Model Y
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Toyota because Toyota? I think toyotas generallly hood their value well and they’re in demand by cab drivers.
