NVIDIA ‘Ampere’ 8nm Graphics Cards

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I could afford any of them if I wished (people who know me sometimes ask why I don't spend more on myself). Most of that stems from not having kids, btw, rather than earning a fortune

As a child of the 80s, I've been gaming since the C64 and Atari 2600.

I wouldn't dream of spending more than £300 on a GPU (or a CPU for that matter). Why? When I look at today's market, I don't see value for money. I see corporate greed.

And I refuse to be a part of that. A part of enabling that to continue.

Because in the end,the big funds,want their monthly improvements,so moneymen/accountants are driving this forward even more now,so want quicker and quicker returns. The true customers are those people,not gamers who are a means to an end. Its affecting PC gaming itself,ie,with increased monetisation,and worse working conditions for devs(constant crunch and lowish pay). Its all about margins,and I suspect less about how much money is actually being made now.

It makes me wonder how long until we get another tech bubble like we had 20 years ago.

Thinking younger generations have more disposable income is pretty delusional often held by the out of step middle classes , it's because we live in a economy which is built on debt, it doesn't matter if people can afford it they can get it on credit. This why the fact we are heading in to the biggest global recession we have ever seen it will have no impact on prices.

I find younger people seem more comfortable with it(I did say items were bought on credit),and the issue is when I say disposable income,I literally mean spending most of it on repaying installments for various things. So the overheads are high.

At least back in my day,we tended to save up for things and CCs,etc were used a bit more sparingly.

 

[Marak]

Thinking younger generations have more disposable income is pretty delusional often held by the out of step middle classes , it's because we live in a economy which is built on debt, it doesn't matter if people can afford it they can get it on credit. This why the fact we are heading in to the biggest global recession we have ever seen it will have no impact on prices.

I'm flattered you think of me as a "younger generation" (mid-40's)

Unless you think I said the real younger generations have a lot of money? Because that's not what I said.

 

[Marak]

The problem is you saying a "big chunk of our generation".

Ok so you're issue is with the "big chunk of our generation" part. Well it's impossible to tell how many that is, but there is no doubt that we are the first big gaming generation, and it's also true that we are now in the biggest wealth generation period of our lives in general. Again, that will make a difference whether you like it or not, or if it matches with your personal experience or not.

T You are reading way too much into PC enthusiast forums.

You are making the assumption of this forum being the case

Can you also stop trying to read my mind? You keep telling me what I'm thinking, I'm not doing that to you.

 

[Illuminist]

VtM2 has been delayed??

Yep, I'm very sad

 

[Kaapstad]

but there is no doubt that we are the first big gaming generation,

No you are not.

 

[McGraw]

I could afford any of them if I wished (people who know me sometimes ask why I don't spend more on myself). Most of that stems from not having kids, btw, rather than earning a fortune

As a child of the 80s, I've been gaming since the C64 and Atari 2600.

I wouldn't dream of spending more than £300 on a GPU (or a CPU for that matter). Why? When I look at today's market, I don't see value for money. I see corporate greed.

And I refuse to be a part of that. A part of enabling that to continue.

The only part of this that doesn't apply to me and I don't agree with 100% is your price limit. Your situation is very similar to mine.

I spent £300 on a Geforce3 (and really regretted it). That seems quite a low figure for a higher end gaming gpu.

My target budget is £500 but I would go higher if price/perf worked in my favour.

I felt a bit guilty buying the 1070 as it was a leap of £280 to £385. A bit much for 35/40% uplift and I nearly made a stand. So glad I didn't, had 4 good years out of it so far. Less than £2 per week true cost without electricity

 

[Jimmy Weirdarms]

So much entitlement in this thread.

I should be able to have X by now for Y pounds!

Really, you think that stuff just happens by magic? Like there's some underlying law of the universe that means a graphics card with huge performance gains can be manufactured for half the price every two years, rather than being the result of huge investment and the hard graft of thousands of people?

Oh, and everyone that is willing to pay for the fruits of that development is either stupid, or just trying to make up for something. Absolutely.

Simple challenge, I mean if it's so easy and so obvious that you should be entitled to get more performance for less money by now - tell me, when are you taking your competitor solution to market?

 

[danlightbulb]

So much entitlement in this thread.

I should be able to have X by now for Y pounds!

Really, you think that stuff just happens by magic? Like there's some underlying law of the universe that means a graphics card with huge performance gains can be manufactured for half the price every two years, rather than being the result of huge investment and the hard graft of thousands of people?

Well that's exactly what's happened with Moore's law for the past fifty years. Plus it happens in other technology sectors all the time. How much did a Megadrive game cost in 1995? TVs, kitchen appliances, musical instruments. None of those have gone silly (if you don't count the extreme top end).

 

[Jimmy Weirdarms]

Well that's exactly what's happened with Moore's law for the past fifty years.

Moore's law is a bust and has been for years, it was only ever an approximation in the first place. It certainly doesn't inform manufacturing costs or entitle you to specific performance or price gains.

Tvs are a great example - technology keeps moving on, you do get more for your money over time. But nobody's demanding they should be able to have a 75 inch OLED for £200 by now, that LG are evil, or that people who buy them are stupid and harming the TV watching community by buying them.

 

[danlightbulb]

Moore's law is a bust and has been for years, it was only ever an approximation in the first place. It certainly doesn't inform manufacturing costs or entitle you to specific performance or price gains.

https://www.design-reuse.com/news/47652/transistor-count-trends.html

Not according to that it's not.

What it doesn't do is map price on. I do understand that increasing gains may come at increasing R&D costs, however it is also true that GPUs in particular seem to be being treated as a commodity these days, unlike CPUs which are still exhibiting reasonable price stability.

 

[DmitryD]

Well that's exactly what's happened with Moore's law for the past fifty years.

It only happened because tens of thousands busted their balls to push physics to levels few thought were possible, it costs a LOT of money and every new generation it costs even more: we are talking many billions in R&D and then paying manufacturing to TSMC which spends tens of billions on creating fabrication technology.

£1000 per top end card is good price, people buy (or rent via loan) cars worth £30-40k that lose 50% of value in 3 years.

 

[Jimmy Weirdarms]

.

 

[Jimmy Weirdarms]

https://www.design-reuse.com/news/47652/transistor-count-trends.html

Not according to that it's not.

In the strict sense of transistor counts, perhaps. But the commonly (mis) understood idea that this means a doubling of performance and/or things getting cheaper, it's not really a useful metric.

And even then it's not true across the board, that article you linked to even says - "Transistor counts in Intel’s PC microprocessors grew approximately 40% per year through 2010, but the rate dropped to half that in the years following".

It doesn't mention AMD but that gives us a pretty good idea that in the CPU space, it fell off years ago.

And it *still* doesn't mean someone is ripping you off if they charge more for it.

 

[Kaapstad]

Moore's law is a bust and has been for years, it was only ever an approximation in the first place. It certainly doesn't inform manufacturing costs or entitle you to specific performance or price gains.

Tvs are a great example - technology keeps moving on, you do get more for your money over time. But nobody's demanding they should be able to have a 75 inch OLED for £200 by now, that LG are evil, or that people who buy them are stupid and harming the TV watching community by buying them.

Moores law is actually doing very well for itself.

The last two architectures from NVidia for example (Volta and Turing) had very large number crunching gains over pascal but this was not reflected in pure gaming fps.

Big Ampere has a staggering 54.2 billion transistors, most of them doing stuff that gamers are not interested in but the bottom line is the computer number crunching power is there.

 

[opethdisciple]

snip

 

[DmitryD]

https://www.design-reuse.com/news/47652/transistor-count-trends.html

Not according to that it's not.

Density is increasing, but actual performance of transistors hit the wall - frequency increases are getting smaller and smaller, heat savings too, in fact it becomes even bigger problem due to concentration of heat in smaller area (harder to cool).

Plus transistor costs going up - there are fewer players who can afford to even have Fabs that do 7-5 nm, even Intel is struggling and they were the kind in this area!

Also, don't forget yields - bigger chips harder to yield, that determines cost to large degree.

In 2-3 years we should have chiplet designs though, hopefully that would increase scalability AND keep the prices sane.

 

[Jimmy Weirdarms]

Moores law is actually doing very well for itself.

Aptly for this thread, Jensen declared it irrelevant in 2018!

https://www.electronicsweekly.com/n...n-huang-moores-law-dead-long-live-ai-2018-10/

 

[Grim5]

Time to feed the (rumour monger) beast:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1294353708684206080

Spoiler

Now we know why Nvidia is jacking prices up by 20%

Big Navi is DOA unless it can offer significant undercuts

 

[FoxEye]

So much entitlement in this thread.

I should be able to have X by now for Y pounds!

Really, you think that stuff just happens by magic? Like there's some underlying law of the universe that means a graphics card with huge performance gains can be manufactured for half the price every two years, rather than being the result of huge investment and the hard graft of thousands of people?

Oh, and everyone that is willing to pay for the fruits of that development is either stupid, or just trying to make up for something. Absolutely.

Simple challenge, I mean if it's so easy and so obvious that you should be entitled to get more performance for less money by now - tell me, when are you taking your competitor solution to market?

Is this a serious post?

 

[Illuminist]

Now we know why Nvidia is jacking prices up by 20%

Big Navi is DOA unless it can offer significant undercuts

Or its nvidia marketing, seeing as its an nvidia pr guy doing the leaking if you read the entire thing