Failures of West in Eastern Europe

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I have been following the situation in eastern Europe for a while now and I'm seeing a very dangerous trend. Ultimately the in-depth expansion into post warsaw pact countries has led to insane strain on EU. I am sure that if it was not for that expansion - UK would still be in the EU. Now we have further issues, not only countries like Poland and Hungary are insane beneficiaries of EU funding - they are also turning away from EU values towards far right.

So far not a single post warsaw pact country is a net beneficiary to the Eu budget. Poland takes out more money out of EU budget than UK used to contribute (2nd largest contribution).

What did we receive in return? I'm not sure. Some could say we created buffer zone against Russia. However, the evidence points that all we did is solidify Putins position in Russia as result of these actions. We completely lost Russian population with the Ukrainian crisis. Almost 7 years since their 'revolution' Ukraine became a fine example to regular Russian why Putin is good.

At the time of euro-maidan, we had signed an agreement between opposition/yanukovich/russia/EU that Yanukovich was leaving in 10 months for elections. Shortly afterwards, the far right nationalist groups stormed parliament and overthrew the government. The first law they attempted to pass (was vetoed) was to ban Russian language. Shortly afterwards they passed the association with EU. All of this was done BEFORE elections, it was very stupid of EU to support any of these actions. While many of us in west paid little attention - this was widely broadcast in Russia. And it did not have a good effect in eyes of regular Russian. What happend for years after that was even worse, with more and more of 'putins propaganda' becoming true.

Some sources regarding this.

'The opposition leaders and Yanukovych came to an agreement that would de-escalate the crisis. The agreement was signed by the foreign ministers of Poland, France and Germany. It called for new Presidential elections (10 months later), a return to the 2004 constitution limiting presidential power, and a new amnesty law. The deal was presented to the Maidan later that evening and was not well-received. One protester from a self-defense unit threatens an armed offensive if President Yanukovych does not resign by 10 am the next morning. '

http://euromaidanpress.com/2016/02/19/a-timeline-of-the-euromaidan-revolution/ - Very pro-euromaidan source, not including facts of armed storm of Rada and making politicians vote with literally armed militia present in building.

'Since then various cities and regions of Ukraine declared Russian a regional language in their jurisdictions. Other cities and regions declared their opposition to this law. Immediately after the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, on 23 February 2014, the Ukrainian Parliament voted to repeal the law.'

'According to December 2013 polls (by three different pollsters) between 45% and 50% of Ukrainians supported Euromaidan, while between 42% and 50% opposed it'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

The political provisions of the treaty were signed on 21 March 2014

Presidential elections were held in Ukraine on 25 May 2014, resulting in Petro Poroshenko being elected President of Ukraine.

Elections Held AFTER signing EU association. In a country where almost 50% opposed EU association.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine–European_Union_Association_Agreement#Signing
Now we have Belarus going on the same path, with huge support from eastern EU countries like Poland, Lithuania. Belarus has all the recipe to even become worse than Ukraine as result of 'pro-eu' revolution, due to how badly EU-association will affect their russia-tied economy, that has non eu compatible industry. This will further solidify Putins and his followers positions. The propaganda machine in Russia is painting an image of us against all picture. The regular Russian is believing this more and more by the day.

So ultimately as of now we have a situation where eastern EU is sucking out money from west, is turning hard right and as result putting undue strain on EU organization as whole. If Brexit is a success, the EU project will most likely fall apart into pieces.

Moreover, we managed to turn Russian population extremely hostile to the west where at this rate I'm sure Putin or his follower will be able to sell an idea that they should roll tanks into Europe to protect themselves.

In the end, it seems expansion policy into the East has possibly cost the existence of European Union and possibly paved way for another war on the continent in the future. On top of it all, it created a situation where in an event that UK thrives post brexit - the whole stability of European continent could possibly be under the question.

COTW_Sept20_EU-contributions-05-SHARE-1.png
 
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Bring in on. It's all so stupid now it's lost any meaning, to be thankful for bread on the table, be thankful for life etc.

Watch the Shadow Gate documentary by Millie Weaver. It explains how the American secret/security services were behind the Ukraine conflict.
 
Bring in on. It's all so stupid now it's lost any meaning, to be thankful for bread on the table, be thankful for life etc.

Watch the Shadow Gate documentary by Millie Weaver. It explains how the American secret/security services were behind the Ukraine conflict.

:D

Shall I watch some David Icke when I'm done with that
 
Well something had to be done to respond to Russia's growing sphere of influence, the problem is that we're being far too civil.

Well it looks like we shot ourselves in foot there big time and if anything played right into Putins hand. Ultimately at this rate I can see Russia taking over whole eastern europe by force sooner or later.

On top of it all this managed to sow seeds of destruction in western EU and whole western block. At one point at this rate the Russian population will become so radicalized that they will see act of war against europe as only solution. Something very similar to Nazi Germany - post their economic woes due to loss in ww1.

Are you going to be happy about being conscripted to die fighting Ivans in Poland that has turned its values against western anyhow?

Best case scenario which I think Putin and his team is going after, is break up of NATO, EU. Then solidifying of far right eastern europe - Poland, Baltics, Ukraine, Hungary, without any support from West due to ideology. Then forcing them to attack Russia one way or another with subsequent their defeat and take over.
 
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Russia doesn't need the Eastern Europe. If it needed it, it wouldn't hand it over in 1989 with ease.

Russia can survive as a completely isolated state from anyone because it has all the natural resources to exist on its own.
After all, it has 1/10 of the Earth land.

I don't understand what exactly countries like Poland or Hungary are so unhappy about.
They are quite developed in comparison to Ukraine, Romania, and other Balkan countries.


If you want a closer integration in the EU, you need to begin working closer with the other nations as one new whole.
You need to accept a Union law, a Union standards, a Union customs, everything that is common for a single state.

If you preserve or conserve the differences, it will ultimately result in envy and other unpleasant phenomena..
 
So ultimately as of now we have a situation where eastern EU is sucking out money from west, is turning hard right and as result putting undue strain on EU organization as whole. If Brexit is a success, the EU project will most likely fall apart into pieces.

Although there isn't much harmony between the core EU and the likes of Poland and Hungary etc. that is wishful thinking at the best of times.
 
Although there isn't much harmony between the core EU and the likes of Poland and Hungary etc. that is wishful thinking at the best of times.

Yeah, while Germany and France as the main pillars of the Union are very developed democracies, Hungary and Poland are not and it will take time till they get used to it.|
Brussels has to be harsh with Hungary, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria and all the countries non-conforming with the main European Union principles.
 
Yeah, while Germany and France as the main pillars of the Union are very developed democracies, Hungary and Poland are not and it will take time till they get used to it.|
Brussels has to be harsh with Hungary, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria and all the countries non-conforming with the main European Union principles.

Well its not like they are working towards conforming. They are literally going backwards.
 
Well its not like they are working towards conforming. They are literally going backwards.

I think Marxism was very damaging in the 20th century, it was like a disease that's had lingering effects to this day. It depends what you want out of life, what is your ideal country, contintent, world etc?
 
I think Marxism was very damaging in the 20th century, it was like a disease that's had lingering effects to this day. It depends what you want out of life, what is your ideal country, contintent, world etc?

You know what ends up being more damaging? Hubris.
 
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I think Marxism was very damaging in the 20th century, it was like a disease that's had lingering effects to this day. It depends what you want out of life, what is your ideal country, contintent, world etc?

If I understand correctly, the right wingers in before mentioned countries are literally opposite of Marxism? The values we see rising in eastern europe are oftentimes polar opposite of what we saw in communism,marxism and Internationale. Please also understand countries like France were very far left leaning as well. Americans think UK is marxist to this day.
 
I support the EU but I do feel as though it shouldn't have expanded east as fast as it has done.

I disagree - expansion yes but simply for free trade - which is of immense benefit.

Freedom of movement was not a smart idea for any EU nation not of a similar proportional equivalance (to western Europe) in per capita GDP...all freedom of movement did was drain Eastern Europe of their best and brightest and fuel xenophobia.

Don't get me wrong a simplified 'visa' process should have been part of it but for skilled migrants we require as with all nations.

As for additional funding this should have been tied more strictly to towing the EUs political lines
 
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?

Perhaps there's a difference i'm not seeing.

We didn't need skilled migrants from eastern Europe... We needed their low paid, hard working workers. I don't quite understand why on earth we had to grant freedom of movement to everyone though. Should have made it easier to apply for working visas, for those low skilled jobs if need be.

Honestly I don't even know why we needed eastern EU apart from sticking it to Russia? Which in the end ultimately played into their hand as of now.
 
It's just the Eastern European ghetto areas that there now are in Britain. But these people are hard working mostly. Perhaps they need a raise of the minimum wage so that they can actually afford a decent gaff. And councils shouldn't let areas go to ruin by taxing the rich a bit more.
 
Apart from nukes should we be that scared of Russia, it's always Russia this, Russia that. It has 144 million people. Relatively small compared to the EU and US combined. As soon as nukes get fired we've entered into a whole new era of history so who's going to be unwise enough to do that. So are we so worried about the rest of their armed forces?

In your opinion why are Russia always made out to be the boogie man?
 
Apart from nukes should we be that scared of Russia, it's always Russia this, Russia that. It has 144 million people. Relatively small compared to the EU and US combined. As soon as nukes get fired we've entered into a whole new era of history so who's going to be unwise enough to do that. So are we so worried about the rest of their armed forces?

In your opinion why are Russia always made out to be the boogie man?

Moscow is an alpha world city, together with London and New York.
The nukes are for protection from occupying forces, the likes of Napoleon, Hitler, and aggressive Poles and Lithuanians in the more distant past.
Russia will never use them to attack first.

I think Marxism was very damaging in the 20th century, it was like a disease that's had lingering effects to this day. It depends what you want out of life, what is your ideal country, contintent, world etc?

I don't think Marxism is the reason. More likely these countries feel better to be in the same group as other Asian countries like Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkey, if you understand what I mean - it's in their mentality to go against the progress.
 
Yeah, while Germany and France as the main pillars of the Union are very developed democracies, Hungary and Poland are not and it will take time till they get used to it.|
Brussels has to be harsh with Hungary, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria and all the countries non-conforming with the main European Union principles.

But the EU is a union of sovereign nations isn't it? that's what remainers like to argue. Are you saying that the goals of the EU take precedence over the policies national governments are democratically elected on? it sounds to me like the EU is incompatible with the Democratic process unless a country elects one of their puppet leaders. The UK is attempting to leave and become a sovereign nation and the EU still wants to dictate how we must operate, it makes me laugh that people see the EU as anything but a kid-glove dictatorship locking countries up in legalise.
 
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