AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

[KillBoY_UK]

If you look at the failure that was Ampere Launch closely, Nvidia are clearly spooked.

1) Paper Launch - almost zero products worldwide
2) Cards failing out of the box at launch
3) Cards clocked to their limits out of the box
4) Marginal increase in performance over previous tiers
5) Cards manufactured with inferior components
6) Partners selling cards at inflated prices via their resellers on sites like Ebay
7) Having to release drivers to stop cards failing, which then actually regressed cards box stated stats
8) Cards with limited Vram while copious rumors and leaks point to versions with higher Vram being kept back
9) Delaying release of all products til AMD show their hand

Yet people are still calling this a victory because the one smart thing Nvidia done was basically hang out to dry their 2080ti owners by giving their customers a 3080 cut down Vram card that performs a lot better at two thirds the price.

So many people believe Nvidia have had a good launch, because the 3080 appears on paper to be a great product, i mean all that performance for that MSRSP... which incidentally very few people will actually get it for unless your willing to wait 3+ months for it. Its a huge gamble, especially if AMD bring the hammer with similar performance at a cheaper price to offset the lack of "Nvidia" features such as DLSS and RTX (AMD will have inferior Ray Tracing we know this, but we expect it to be better than Nvidias 1st gen Ray tracing anyhow, so id call that a win)

The most insulting thing i feel though, is even now with the huge back orders of 3080 / 3090 cards, Nvidia will still undoubtedly release 20GB variants of the 3080, at a hugely marked up price, while their customers still cant get the 10GB versions, watch this space i can almost guarantee it will happen.

Yet despite all of this absolute clusterbumble of a launch people still believe AMD will only be competing with the 3070, its mind-blowing how people can still feel this to be the case lmao...

We could quite possibly see a scenario where not only does AMD compete with Nvidia this time round, but actually come at a good price and have plenty of stock to fill orders (the last bit im still hesitant about due to AMD needing to fulfil CPU and console orders, could be a big ask)

What i do know for certain, is Amperes launch gets more hysterical to watch by the day, i literally laugh everytime i read a new thread on this and other forums and reddit etc regarding something new from this launch, or a new failure etc, literally you could not make this launch up, its horrendously funny.

 

[KentMan]

It has been quite awhile since the x80 core was on the xx2 core rather than being the top part on xx4 to maximise profits as we've seen lately - though there are other factors I think a good part of it is a response to what nVidia think AMD are bringing - if AMD were just bringing circa 2080ti performance it would be highly likely the 3080 was on GA104 and GA102 was a 3080ti and Titan instead.

In some ways your correct, websites crashed for Consoles too, however with regards to Nvidias cards, the reason why websites had issues because the too good to be true offer of the 3080 at its suggest MSRP drove people to sites to pick it up, as lets be honest, that level of performance for the price was actually the best thing ive seen from Nvidia for a long long time, i even considered a 3080 myself (glad i held off now).

Nvidia sold this hype to a lot of people, lots of people bought into it, hence the demand, which was real, and now unfortunately will probably end up biting them in the rear.

 

[Rroff]

Yet despite all of this absolute clusterbumble of a launch people still believe AMD will only be competing with the 3070, its mind-blowing how people can still feel this to be the case lmao...

While I disagree with it - you can see how from recent history people would have that opinion. (I honestly believe from the way nVidia have reacted that suggests AMD have something that sits favourably with their line up). Whether AMD will only compete with the 3070 or not doesn't really have much correlation with how poorly nVidia have executed this launch.

Again another post where I think you'd be better waiting until after the AMD launch to post such a mixture of sour grapes and crowing because it is going to look a bit silly if AMD have delays or shortages, etc. to deal with as well (and I'm not saying they will).

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

We've never had a situation before where a new GPU launch has generated traffic volumes that exceed Black Friday, taken out websites for so many hours at a time and levels of traffic that resulted in other unrelated sites thinking they were being DDOS'd.

There is always massive hype around a new GPU launch - translating that into actual sales is as much an art-form as it is a science and actual order quantities were an unknown before launch.

We've also never seen a situation where many people are sitting at home during a GPU launch. The probably contributed to the short term traffic volumes they saw.

 

[ICDP]

We've never had a situation before where a new GPU launch has generated traffic volumes that exceed Black Friday, taken out websites for so many hours at a time and levels of traffic that resulted in other unrelated sites thinking they were being DDOS'd.

There is always massive hype around a new GPU launch - translating that into actual sales is as much an art-form as it is a science and actual order quantities were an unknown before launch.

You really are drinking the Nvidia Kool-aid.

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/t...aphics-cards.18866747/page-1168#post-34040697

If this is the numbers from one of the biggest EU tech retailers then these numbers are pathetic. I cannot fathom how someone can look at the evidence and come away thinking the 30X0 is in plentiful supply and that the problem is Nvidia can;t keep up with demand. All evidence points to the fact Nvidia rushed this launch and have ****-poor supply.

 

[Dontrocktheboat]

)

What i do know for certain, is Amperes launch gets more hysterical to watch by the day, i literally laugh everytime i read a new thread on this and other forums and reddit etc regarding something new from this launch, or a new failure etc, literally you could not make this launch up, its horrendously funny.

My suggestion is , Don't laugh too much.

AMDs reveal of Navi at then end of oct might be even worse. That goes for its CPU division.

Looking at the AMDs track record, rumours of poor yields. The impending covid lockdown, the Brexit dropout.

Not to mention AMDs total relience on TMSC
, and it's 7nm capacity. Which lets be honest will be massively bottlenecked. As it has to serve CPU, Xbox x GPU, playstation GPU , and Navi.

That laughter might quickly turn into tears. And we will be stuck waiting for Navi and zen CPUs until march next year.

 

[ICDP]

My suggestion is , Don't laugh too much.

AMDs reveal of Navi at then end of oct might be even worse. That goes for its CPU division.

Looking at the AMDs track record, rumours of poor yields. The impending covid lockdown, the Brexit dropout.

Not to mention AMDs total relience on TMSC
, and it's 7nm capacity. Which lets be honest will be massively bottlenecked. As it has to serve CPU, Xbox x GPU, playstation GPU , and Navi.

That laughter might quickly turn into tears. And we will be stuck waiting for Navi and zen CPUs until march next year.

The Nvidia 30X0 launch debacle exists in a vacuum and would still be a launch debacle no matter what AMD does with Navi. If AMD also mess up it does not somehow make Ampere launch any better.

 

[KentMan]

While I disagree with it - you can see how from recent history people would have that opinion. (I honestly believe from the way nVidia have reacted that suggests AMD have something that sits favourably with their line up).

Again another post where I think you'd be better waiting until after the AMD launch to post such a mixture of sour grapes and crowing because it is going to look a bit silly if AMD have delays or shortages, etc. to deal with as well (and I'm not saying they will).

Sour grapes? ok....

As i stated, i was seriously looking at the 3080, as lets be honest, at its suggested MSRP and the actual performance we have seen its a brilliant card, especially as i would be coming from a 5700XT so its a huge upgrade for me 3440x1440p resolution. But as im a realist, i figured id hold off for a couple of weeks and see how it is in actual users hands (i dont tend to watch techtubers, i prefer to see actual users impressions of hardware, as most techtubers are being bought in one way or another) so in this instance, i got to watch the entire Ampere launch unfold from the bylines...

So if its sour grapes calling out all the shortcomings of this launch then yeah fair enough i guess i have sour grapes

And like you, i have my concerns about the lack of Inventory from AMD as well, a lot of eggs in one TSMC shaped basket for them, with Consoles, CPUs and GPUs all being manufactured via that one foundry owner.

And no i am not crowing either, i am merely stating facts, where in my previous post is there anything that is not factual? i dont take pleasure in laughing at other peoples misfortunes really, but this Ampere launch has been so undeniably and unbelievably bad, its hard not to stare in disbelief on a daily basis at the incompetence that keeps unfolding before us, and there are just too many die hard Nvidia fans on these forums who absolutely refuse to believe Nvidia have done any wrong or can do any wrong.

But i digress, i do believe AMD wont have any serious amount of stock of CPU's and GPUs for a good few months either, i think they may have a decent amount of CPU's, but i do feel the GPU side of things may be a bit sparse for a while.

 

[Rroff]

You really are drinking the Nvidia Kool-aid.

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/t...aphics-cards.18866747/page-1168#post-34040697

If this is the numbers from one of the biggest EU tech retailers then these numbers are pathetic. I cannot fathom how someone can look at the evidence and come away thinking the 30X0 is in plentiful supply and that the problem is Nvidia can;t keep up with demand. All evidence points to the fact Nvidia rushed this launch and have ****-poor supply.

Never said supply is plentiful - but it isn't particularly different supply wise to the first few weeks of other launches (people seem to have short memories) while demand certainly is different to other launches. If you compare the kind of stock levels in the first few weeks of previous launches they would take around 2-4 months to clear the demand for Ampere.

Sour grapes? ok....

As i stated, i was seriously looking at the 3080, as lets be honest, at its suggested MSRP and the actual performance we have seen its a brilliant card, especially as i would be coming from a 5700XT so its a huge upgrade for me 3440x1440p resolution. But as im a realist, i figured id hold off for a couple of weeks and see how it is in actual users hands (i dont tend to watch techtubers, i prefer to see actual users impressions of hardware, as most techtubers are being bought in one way or another) so in this instance, i got to watch the entire Ampere launch unfold from the bylines...

So if its sour grapes calling out all the shortcomings of this launch then yeah fair enough i guess i have sour grapes

And like you, i have my concerns about the lack of Inventory from AMD as well, a lot of eggs in one TSMC shaped basket for them, with Consoles, CPUs and GPUs all being manufactured via that one foundry owner.

And no i am not crowing either, i am merely stating facts, where in my previous post is there anything that is not factual? i dont take pleasure in laughing at other peoples misfortunes really, but this Ampere launch has been so undeniably and unbelievably bad, its hard not to stare in disbelief on a daily basis at the incompetence that keeps unfolding before us, and there are just too many die hard Nvidia fans on these forums who absolutely refuse to believe Nvidia have done any wrong or can do any wrong.

But i digress, i do believe AMD wont have any serious amount of stock of CPU's and GPUs for a good few months either, i think they may have a decent amount of CPU's, but i do feel the GPU side of things may be a bit sparse for a while.

You seem to be going to lengths to turn over any stone that might hide a way to have a poke at nVidia - comes off like sour grapes to me.

The Nvidia 30X0 launch debacle exists in a vacuum and would still be a launch debacle no matter what AMD does with Navi. If AMD also mess up it does not somehow make Ampere launch any better.

While that is true - it makes some people's posts and the style of their criticism look rather silly in hindsight if AMD doesn't deliver a reasonable launch.

 

[Parsley]

If you look at the failure that was Ampere Launch closely, Nvidia are clearly spooked.

I wouldn't buy that they'd ever be spooked enough to over react so deliberately.

They are a Titan in the industry it doesn't matter which way you look at it. They can afford to fall behind for 2-3 generations and they'd still, easily, have the money to RnD their way back to the top if they so choose. More importantly they seem to have such an incredible force of mindshare that they could literally deliver a cowpat in a box for 3 years, give it some amazing proprietary name "CowPatTi BlendTex" and enough people would buy it and throw the thing in their computer that it wouldn't matter anyway. All the big tech companies have their insane fanbase, but Nvidias competes with Apple for pure mind bogglingly blind loyalty, faith... devotion? I don't know.

I think they just wanted to get it out of the door to shove their share prices up before they bought ARM so yeah, they've perhaps been anti consumer for their own short term gain, but I don't think AMD are capable of seriously spooking them... yet.

Buy based on performance, cost, features and support (and I think how you feel about the company and its practices does matter somewhat also) when it comes to buying something. Give yourself as many options as possible. Who cares who made it, seriously.

 

[Vince]

Sour grapes? ok....

As i stated, i was seriously looking at the 3080, as lets be honest, at its suggested MSRP and the actual performance we have seen its a brilliant card, especially as i would be coming from a 5700XT so its a huge upgrade for me 3440x1440p resolution. But as im a realist, i figured id hold off for a couple of weeks and see how it is in actual users hands (i dont tend to watch techtubers, i prefer to see actual users impressions of hardware, as most techtubers are being bought in one way or another) so in this instance, i got to watch the entire Ampere launch unfold from the bylines...

So if its sour grapes calling out all the shortcomings of this launch then yeah fair enough i guess i have sour grapes

And like you, i have my concerns about the lack of Inventory from AMD as well, a lot of eggs in one TSMC shaped basket for them, with Consoles, CPUs and GPUs all being manufactured via that one foundry owner.

And no i am not crowing either, i am merely stating facts, where in my previous post is there anything that is not factual? i dont take pleasure in laughing at other peoples misfortunes really, but this Ampere launch has been so undeniably and unbelievably bad, its hard not to stare in disbelief on a daily basis at the incompetence that keeps unfolding before us, and there are just too many die hard Nvidia fans on these forums who absolutely refuse to believe Nvidia have done any wrong or can do any wrong.

But i digress, i do believe AMD wont have any serious amount of stock of CPU's and GPUs for a good few months either, i think they may have a decent amount of CPU's, but i do feel the GPU side of things may be a bit sparse for a while.

I don't see why AMD being fabless is all of a sudden an issue. Across all nodes TSMC produce some 2.5 million wafers PCM with AMD holding approx 25% of that. That's wafers not chips, we are also then assuming in the posts on this page that CPU's, GPU's, consoles etc are all produced on the same N7 node rather than mixed over the different N7, N7+ N5 etc nodes. If TSMC can keep pace with apple and it's other customers it's not a stretch to think they can keep up with AMD orders so long as AMD order enough production.

 

[KentMan]

My suggestion is , Don't laugh too much.

AMDs reveal of Navi at then end of oct might be even worse. That goes for its CPU division.

Looking at the AMDs track record, rumours of poor yields. The impending covid lockdown, the Brexit dropout.

Not to mention AMDs total relience on TMSC
, and it's 7nm capacity. Which lets be honest will be massively bottlenecked. As it has to serve CPU, Xbox x GPU, playstation GPU , and Navi.

That laughter might quickly turn into tears. And we will be stuck waiting for Navi and zen CPUs until march next year.

You are correct, the Navi reveal could be terrible, im erring on the side of i think it will be pretty decent, mainly due to the kneejerk Ampere launch, Nvidia normally have half decent launches even if the products are not always brilliant, this launch in comparison is horrendous, which leads me to think Nvidia are spooked, and the logical conclusion for that is AMD (their closest competitor, who are about to launch new products) actually have something to compete with Nvidias offerings.

And where are these rumors of poor yields? maybe the WCCtech article about TSMC's 7nm+ Euv yields dropping below 70% https://wccftech.com/tsmc-7nm-euv-yield-alleged/ how do we know what AMD are making on these?

when we have actual evidence from TSMC themselves of their defect rates https://hardforum.com/threads/tsmc-actual-7nm-defect-rate-and-therefore-yield-revealed.1989911/ which point to it being extremely low...

So excuse me if i choose to believe TSMC rather than some random nobber from wtftech who we all know seem to pull many stories from their rear ends most of the time

 

[Rroff]

They are a Titan in the industry it doesn't matter which way you look at it. They can afford to fall behind for 2-3 generations and they'd still, easily, have the money to RnD their way back to the top if they so choose. More importantly they seem to have such an incredible force of mindshare that they could literally deliver a cowpat in a box for 3 years, give it some amazing proprietary name "CowPatTi BlendTex" and enough people would buy it and throw the thing in their computer that it wouldn't matter anyway. All the big tech companies have their insane fanbase, but Nvidias competes with Apple for pure mind bogglingly blind loyalty, faith... devotion? I don't know.

Some of that reasoning is IMO behind the naming of the tiers vs silicon this time - it looks a lot better for nVidia if AMD is competing with their 3080 than their 3080ti.

Overall I don't think the reasons behind this launch are simply down to any one major factor - manipulating their share price over the ARM deal almost certainly will be in there but I doubt that it was the only major driver of this launch. Until we see what AMD are going to do though much of that is speculation.

 

[KentMan]

You seem to be going to lengths to turn over any stone that might hide a way to have a poke at nVidia - comes off like sour grapes to me.

Ahh that is probably because you are a massive Nvidia fan and one can pretty much garauntee wherever there is anything negative said about Nvidia, you are soon to show up and shout it down i have seen your numerous posts over the years, enough to make me think you may actually work for them in some capacity

 

[KentMan]

I wouldn't buy that they'd ever be spooked enough to over react so deliberately.

They are a Titan in the industry it doesn't matter which way you look at it. They can afford to fall behind for 2-3 generations and they'd still, easily, have the money to RnD their way back to the top if they so choose. More importantly they seem to have such an incredible force of mindshare that they could literally deliver a cowpat in a box for 3 years, give it some amazing proprietary name "CowPatTi BlendTex" and enough people would buy it and throw the thing in their computer that it wouldn't matter anyway. All the big tech companies have their insane fanbase, but Nvidias competes with Apple for pure mind bogglingly blind loyalty, faith... devotion? I don't know.

I think they just wanted to get it out of the door to shove their share prices up before they bought ARM so yeah, they've perhaps been anti consumer for their own short term gain, but I don't think AMD are capable of seriously spooking them... yet.

Buy based on performance, cost, features and support (and I think how you feel about the company and its practices does matter somewhat also) when it comes to buying something. Give yourself as many options as possible. Who cares who made it, seriously.

thats an incredibly good point re the ARM acquisition and share prices, i had not even thought about that, definitely a good point.

 

[Rroff]

And where are these rumors of poor yields? maybe the WCCtech article about TSMC's 7nm+ Euv yields dropping below 70% https://wccftech.com/tsmc-7nm-euv-yield-alleged/ how do we know what AMD are making on these?

when we have actual evidence from TSMC themselves of their defect rates https://hardforum.com/threads/tsmc-actual-7nm-defect-rate-and-therefore-yield-revealed.1989911/ which point to it being extremely low...

So excuse me if i choose to believe TSMC rather than some random nobber from wtftech who we all know seem to pull many stories from their rear ends most of the time

Yeah there are no yield issues at TSMC - yields at 70% being good or bad depends a lot on factors like the size of the core as well - back in the day it was less of a problem to talk about yields in percentages like that but these days with different technologies and GPU cores of silly sizes at times the a yield percentage on its own doesn't really say much - if you were pumping out huge dies that were pushing the reticle limit and getting 50% yields that is actually good.

 

[Vince]

Ahh that is probably because you are a massive Nvidia fan and one can pretty much garauntee wherever there is anything negative said about Nvidia, you are soon to show up and shout it down i have seen your numerous posts over the years, enough to make me think you may actually work for them in some capacity

Nothing wrong with preference - You won't pick AMD if you are working with CUDA. Likewise you probably won't go NV if you are working in opencl/metal.

 

[Grim5]

We've never had a situation before where a new GPU launch has generated traffic volumes that exceed Black Friday

Sales volumes are pretty high, but Nvidia could have seen it coming. The RTX3080 launch sales volume was higher than the GTX1080, GTX1080ti, RTX2080 and RTX2080ti combined!

 

[Rroff]

Ahh that is probably because you are a massive Nvidia fan and one can pretty much garauntee wherever there is anything negative said about Nvidia, you are soon to show up and shout it down i have seen your numerous posts over the years, enough to make me think you may actually work for them in some capacity

Funny how some only see the posts where I'm critical of AMD and/or defend nVidia.

Won't hide I don't like AMD, never have hidden it. But I would jump on any other brand if there was a viable alternative to nVidia I dislike them also. (EDIT: But I don't go out of my way to hate on AMD either).

 

[KentMan]

Yeah there are no yield issues at TSMC - yields at 70% being good or bad depends a lot on factors like the size of the core as well - back in the day it was less of a problem to talk about yields in percentages like that but these days with different technologies and GPU cores of silly sizes at times the a yield percentage on its own doesn't really say much - if you were pumping out huge dies that were pushing the reticle limit and getting 50% yields that is actually good.

Very True

We also know that even some of the failures can be cut down for products further down the stack as well, so while yields might be lower for the top tier products they can often be stockpiled for the lower end products.