E46 / E92 M3 advice
- Thread starter Robbo
- Start date
Conrod bearings should be a service item. BMW dealers acknowledged it on the E46 and recommended it to be seen to from the 80k miles mark and other specialists also are in-line with this reasoning. Bearing shells will wear over time, some sooner than other depending on various conditions of driving style, oil used etc etc. Each one will be individual.
It sounds like you've merely stood in front of one whilst it's been idling and not actually driven or been in one or heard one driving by.
There are a few things to consider.
1: 2005 and 2006 E46 M3s share the CSL exhaust manifold and as such sound a little meatier.
2: Poor or incorrect service maintenance will make them sound more rattly when idle than they do as standard. Many owners only have valve clearances checked and adjusted on an Inspection 2 for example even though it's required for Inspection 1 as well. Do remember that this is an engine with little in the way of plastic coverings or sound deadening around the engine bay and the bonnet is a thin piece of aluminium too.
3: The sound of the S54 is great even with the stock airbox. Stick the £500 Evolve Eventuri on there which is a straight drop-in with no other changes needed and you get a car that sounds very close to a CSL (exhaust backbox between CSL and non CSL is the same), more-so on a 2005 or 2006 model.
You have posted an opinion which is fine of course, free world and all that. But opinions stated as facts are no good without evidence. I own one of these and have plenty of evidence to share.
It sounds like you've merely stood in front of one whilst it's been idling and not actually driven or been in one or heard one driving by.
There are a few things to consider.
1: 2005 and 2006 E46 M3s share the CSL exhaust manifold and as such sound a little meatier.
2: Poor or incorrect service maintenance will make them sound more rattly when idle than they do as standard. Many owners only have valve clearances checked and adjusted on an Inspection 2 for example even though it's required for Inspection 1 as well. Do remember that this is an engine with little in the way of plastic coverings or sound deadening around the engine bay and the bonnet is a thin piece of aluminium too.
3: The sound of the S54 is great even with the stock airbox. Stick the £500 Evolve Eventuri on there which is a straight drop-in with no other changes needed and you get a car that sounds very close to a CSL (exhaust backbox between CSL and non CSL is the same), more-so on a 2005 or 2006 model.
You have posted an opinion which is fine of course, free world and all that. But opinions stated as facts are no good without evidence. I own one of these and have plenty of evidence to share.
Soldato
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- 19 Oct 2002
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You claim that loads of bearings have come out looking fine, I've done a lot of searching and found very few, how about you back up your claim with some links?
!
Quick Batman, to the internet.
Joker wants some links.
Mate from work has one, i just don't think they sound nice. Its an aftermarket exhaust so maybe it makes it worse. Its far to rattly for me. Great looking car though. Wouldn't want one personally. Guy who sold me my car bought a e46 m3 and it was nothing but trouble. Head gasket went on it twice and the diff.
Id have a E92 M3 over one any day of any week. Shouldnt even be a consideration.
Id have a E92 M3 over one any day of any week. Shouldnt even be a consideration.
You can stop right there!
In all these years I have yet to hear a single S54 aftermarket exhaust system that sounds good. They all either make the car sound like a JDM with muffled boom, or completely change the character of the sound. There's a reason why the stock exhaust backbox alone weighs 25KG.
It's sad really but there was a time when these were being bought by the usual stereotype who end up tinting the windows, adding M POWER stickers to the windscreen, subwoofers to the boot and CSL reps and aftermarket exhausts etc. A handful still exist but even more sadly they've either rotted/rotting away or been crashed. Plenty still exist out there in stock configuration i these key areas though but you rarely see them about much any more as people garage them or those that get used often are few and far between because as mentioned above I think by Gibbo, the running costs definitely can and do end up being eye watering at this age and majority mileage for many who in previous years would be lining up to own an E46 M3.
If it had "the hammer down" then the only thing you should have heard is very loud induction noise as it approaches and then metallic rasp as it goes away and if it had a carbon airbox then rasp+induction as it goes away.
If it sounded rattly in motion especially with open throttle then that example was in a poor state of maintenance. The S54 is quite vocal and typically you can tell one of the number of failures are soon to be due from how it sounds when idle and in motion. The engine in optimum shape is still noisy when idling though or coasting at low speed. You can hear the clattering of the moving parts inside the block, the tappets etc are all much louder than other engines so its important to know what is by nature and design and what is an impending fault. Only 2005 and 2006 models have a meatier sound out the box however as mentioned.
There genuinely is no other engine like it and no other engine that sounds like it. Combination of exhaust and induction are perfectly suited to each other IMO. Watch any professional motoring review of an E46 and the reviewer 100% of the time praises how they sound. Likewise popular youtube car reviewers in the last few years have been getting viewer cars in and reviewing too and once again the noise is always a point of mention.
If it sounded rattly in motion especially with open throttle then that example was in a poor state of maintenance. The S54 is quite vocal and typically you can tell one of the number of failures are soon to be due from how it sounds when idle and in motion. The engine in optimum shape is still noisy when idling though or coasting at low speed. You can hear the clattering of the moving parts inside the block, the tappets etc are all much louder than other engines so its important to know what is by nature and design and what is an impending fault. Only 2005 and 2006 models have a meatier sound out the box however as mentioned.
There genuinely is no other engine like it and no other engine that sounds like it. Combination of exhaust and induction are perfectly suited to each other IMO. Watch any professional motoring review of an E46 and the reviewer 100% of the time praises how they sound. Likewise popular youtube car reviewers in the last few years have been getting viewer cars in and reviewing too and once again the noise is always a point of mention.
Associate
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- UK, Surrey, Guildford
I never really liked the std M3 e46 exhaust sound, just sounds as if it had some loose baffles. Some aftermarket exhausts do sound good though! 
Btw, even if I found that 90% of their bearings are ok (I seriously doubt it, but we'll see), that doesn't change the fact that a large portion of bearings come out looking rough, as demonstrated by all the photos in the M3post thread.
Bigger clearances are less likely to cause problems as they return the S65 to industry standard clearances. I shall be changing mine to larger clearances for sure.
I'll check out that FB group, thanks. [edit]UK or US group? Or both? Nm, requested to join both.
Btw, even if I found that 90% of their bearings are ok (I seriously doubt it, but we'll see), that doesn't change the fact that a large portion of bearings come out looking rough, as demonstrated by all the photos in the M3post thread.
Bigger clearances are less likely to cause problems as they return the S65 to industry standard clearances. I shall be changing mine to larger clearances for sure.
What's the joke to ask for some data (photos) to back up claims??
Last edited:
Associate
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- 26 Oct 2002
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- UK, Surrey, Guildford
Simon
Thanks for heads up on the facebook groups, I joined a couple and searched back through 5mths of photos at BMW E9X M3 V8 UK owners club (I'm going to stop at 6mths as it's tediously slow to load!).
Out of 31 different peoples photos I looked at, 20 had shells that were completely and unequivocally knackered, that's this lot (which I added to my list) :-
71.(FB) Ben Chidzoy - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3634403579915172&set=p.3634403579915172&type=3 (59k miles, multiple shells showing copper).
72.(FB) Alan Darrah - https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=4140666622616172&set=gm.658919751485961 (94.5k miles, multiple shells to copper!).
73.(FB) Alex Jones - https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10220153528082504&set=g.206918150019459 (unknown mileage, multiple shells to copper!).
74.(FB) Ross Nayler - https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=1437834796422370&set=g.206918150019459 (91k miles, at least 3 shells showing copper).
75.(FB) Tom Uttley - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3500497073302638&set=p.3500497073302638&type=3 (79k miles).
76.(FB) James Read - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10164361883980624&set=g.206918150019459 (52k miles, multiple shells to copper).
77.(FB) Guy 'Guido' Mather - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=3437092252967980&set=g.206918150019459 (61k miles).
78.(FB) Matt Dixon - https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10223054052881201&set=g.206918150019459 and https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10223054052001179&set=g.206918150019459 (unknown mileage, multiple shells showing copper).
83.(FB) Aron Holder - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10158694840629083&set=g.206918150019459 (83k miles, multiple top shells showing copper).
84.(FB) Rob Reeves - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10163865318575162&set=g.206918150019459 (62k miles, nearly all top shells showing copper).
85.(FB) Anthony Burgess - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3444875012204036&set=p.3444875012204036&type=3 (99.3k miles, most top shells nearly completely wiped of lead!).
86.(FB) Reece Beany - https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=3144184282334920&set=g.206918150019459 (61k miles, some top shells showing copper).
87.(FB) Stephen Harry Wilson - https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10160080021614829&set=gm.581070385937565 (66.5k miles, at least 1 showing copper).
88.(FB) Stuart Morgan - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10157889817227775&set=g.206918150019459 (94k miles).
89.(FB) Carl A Stokes - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=836979000403600&set=p.836979000403600&type=3 (74k miles, multiple shells showing a lot of copper!).
90.(FB) Andy Cook - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10221028891946118&set=g.206918150019459 (86k miles).
91.(FB) Rory O'Brien - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10157564684867677&set=g.206918150019459 (72k miles).
92.(FB) Jon Pearson - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10157663890997606&set=p.10157663890997606&type=3 (65k miles, LCI bearings, 2 shells scored!).
93.(FB) Dan Hoffman - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10158451075607628&set=p.10158451075607628&type=3 (63k miles).
94.(FB) Arlen Davis - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10163966570585556&set=g.206918150019459 (88k miles, all top shells showing copper!).
The remaining 11 people had bearings that were at various states of significant wear, remember these are meant to be a non contact surface during running!
116.(FB)Matthew Cooper - https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=364544378294418&set=g.206918150019459 (52k miles, LCI bearings, only a few shown).
117.(FB) Benjamin Murray - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10164356977965008&set=g.206918150019459 (90k miles).
118.(FB) Leon A Beckford - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10157731979241139&set=g.206918150019459 (70k miles).
119.(FB) Sherry Sherry - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=160344132362817&set=g.206918150019459 (59k miles, LCI bearings).
120.(FB) Dave Norris - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10159060273824586&set=g.206918150019459 (57.8k miles, LCI bearings).
121.(FB) Rj Williams - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=3320242997996570&set=g.206918150019459 (81k miles).
128.(FB) Aron Billen - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10158895389969560&set=g.206918150019459 (73.9k miles).
129.(FB) Dean Harrison - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=3334351960123640&set=g.206918150019459 (84k miles, LCI bearings).
130.(FB) Ben Mcdonald - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=3100767176635501&set=g.206918150019459 (80k miles, LCI bearings).
131.(FB) Adam Taylor - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1393218217551862&set=p.1393218217551862&type=3 (40k miles, LCI bearings).
132.(FB) Nick Spray - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=259023445309545&set=p.259023445309545&type=3 (55k miles).
In the latter list some people claim that the LCI bearings (silvery colour) are fine, they're not! As I previously discussed, they have significant wear, I reiterate that I am not claiming they are imminently about to fail in this 2nd list (btw the photo by malek linked below shows a good close up shot of an OEM LCI bearing showing the micro grooves, and despite that only having done 6k miles a lot of the grooves have worn out!).
We simply don't know how much life is left in them, all we do know is that they are excessively worn and are compromised to some fashion.
Oh, and I didn't find a single case in that FB group, during that 5 mth period, of shells that had worn normally, i.e very slightly, like these :-
Good condition
1.krx927 - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=23721827&postcount=807 (65.9k miles. They look good! Unless the dark photos are hiding damage?).
2.deansbimmer - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24489814&postcount=926 (LAST photo only, 26.3 k miles).
3.----Flyin-High---- - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25280091&postcount=1190 (85k miles, 2011 car, good photo and they do look good, with only very slight visible wear. But possibly they had already been replaced?).
Good condition, aftermarket bearings pulled
Deansbimmer - 52k miles, supercharged! VAC/Clevite (increased clearance), 14/1/20 - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25681122&postcount=1386
toolshed - 31k miles, BE bearings, 26/7/18 (only 1 shell shown) - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=23505818&postcount=1114
Malek - 33.5k miles, old design VAC/Clevite (slightly reduced clearance!), 30/12/14 - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1073979
maicol76 - 6-12k miles, lots of track use, VAC bearings, https://www.m3post.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1796920&stc=1&d=1522589580
SYT_Shadow - 25k miles on BE bearings, mostly track use. (No1 mains spun).Photos taken from 'blown engine thread pt2' - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25986925&postcount=93
scrippy - 98k miles on WPC bearings, replaced due to cracked sumps and oil loss! Photo is poor quality. https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22895612&postcount=612
Good condition non S65 bearings
Scharbag - N54 bearings, 85k miles - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25198440&postcount=69 and https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25198501&postcount=1164
Fezza - N55 bearings, 60k miles - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=26463602&postcount=1755
*********************************************
In addition to that I found some people talking complete s***! Like some in this post - https://www.facebook.com/groups/bmwm3v8uk/permalink/556068385104432/
Some people there were saying the shells were fine when they were showing copper! LMFAO, they obviously haven't got a clue what they're talking about!
Simply reading these pdfs (linked below) by King bearings will clearly prove what I'm saying about the lead/copper bearings.
Engine bearings and how they work - https://www.kingbearings.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Engine-Bearings-and-how-they-work.pdf
Engine bearing materials - https://www.kingbearings.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Engine-Bearing-materials.pdf
So, that goes back to my point, hardly any rod bearings that come out of S65s come out in good condition, i.e hardly worn.
And like I said before, if you have seen a ton of photos of them in good nick, then link me up, otherwise you've just seen the odd one, and/or people talking crap, like the above post I linked.
Oh, 1 more point, even if you were one of the lucky few to have good old bearings in them, you can't know that until you've stripped it out.
Thanks for heads up on the facebook groups, I joined a couple and searched back through 5mths of photos at BMW E9X M3 V8 UK owners club (I'm going to stop at 6mths as it's tediously slow to load!).
Out of 31 different peoples photos I looked at, 20 had shells that were completely and unequivocally knackered, that's this lot (which I added to my list) :-
71.(FB) Ben Chidzoy - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3634403579915172&set=p.3634403579915172&type=3 (59k miles, multiple shells showing copper).
72.(FB) Alan Darrah - https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=4140666622616172&set=gm.658919751485961 (94.5k miles, multiple shells to copper!).
73.(FB) Alex Jones - https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10220153528082504&set=g.206918150019459 (unknown mileage, multiple shells to copper!).
74.(FB) Ross Nayler - https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=1437834796422370&set=g.206918150019459 (91k miles, at least 3 shells showing copper).
75.(FB) Tom Uttley - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3500497073302638&set=p.3500497073302638&type=3 (79k miles).
76.(FB) James Read - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10164361883980624&set=g.206918150019459 (52k miles, multiple shells to copper).
77.(FB) Guy 'Guido' Mather - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=3437092252967980&set=g.206918150019459 (61k miles).
78.(FB) Matt Dixon - https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10223054052881201&set=g.206918150019459 and https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10223054052001179&set=g.206918150019459 (unknown mileage, multiple shells showing copper).
83.(FB) Aron Holder - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10158694840629083&set=g.206918150019459 (83k miles, multiple top shells showing copper).
84.(FB) Rob Reeves - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10163865318575162&set=g.206918150019459 (62k miles, nearly all top shells showing copper).
85.(FB) Anthony Burgess - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3444875012204036&set=p.3444875012204036&type=3 (99.3k miles, most top shells nearly completely wiped of lead!).
86.(FB) Reece Beany - https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=3144184282334920&set=g.206918150019459 (61k miles, some top shells showing copper).
87.(FB) Stephen Harry Wilson - https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10160080021614829&set=gm.581070385937565 (66.5k miles, at least 1 showing copper).
88.(FB) Stuart Morgan - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10157889817227775&set=g.206918150019459 (94k miles).
89.(FB) Carl A Stokes - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=836979000403600&set=p.836979000403600&type=3 (74k miles, multiple shells showing a lot of copper!).
90.(FB) Andy Cook - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10221028891946118&set=g.206918150019459 (86k miles).
91.(FB) Rory O'Brien - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10157564684867677&set=g.206918150019459 (72k miles).
92.(FB) Jon Pearson - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10157663890997606&set=p.10157663890997606&type=3 (65k miles, LCI bearings, 2 shells scored!).
93.(FB) Dan Hoffman - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10158451075607628&set=p.10158451075607628&type=3 (63k miles).
94.(FB) Arlen Davis - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10163966570585556&set=g.206918150019459 (88k miles, all top shells showing copper!).
The remaining 11 people had bearings that were at various states of significant wear, remember these are meant to be a non contact surface during running!
116.(FB)Matthew Cooper - https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=364544378294418&set=g.206918150019459 (52k miles, LCI bearings, only a few shown).
117.(FB) Benjamin Murray - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10164356977965008&set=g.206918150019459 (90k miles).
118.(FB) Leon A Beckford - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10157731979241139&set=g.206918150019459 (70k miles).
119.(FB) Sherry Sherry - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=160344132362817&set=g.206918150019459 (59k miles, LCI bearings).
120.(FB) Dave Norris - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10159060273824586&set=g.206918150019459 (57.8k miles, LCI bearings).
121.(FB) Rj Williams - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=3320242997996570&set=g.206918150019459 (81k miles).
128.(FB) Aron Billen - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10158895389969560&set=g.206918150019459 (73.9k miles).
129.(FB) Dean Harrison - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=3334351960123640&set=g.206918150019459 (84k miles, LCI bearings).
130.(FB) Ben Mcdonald - https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=3100767176635501&set=g.206918150019459 (80k miles, LCI bearings).
131.(FB) Adam Taylor - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1393218217551862&set=p.1393218217551862&type=3 (40k miles, LCI bearings).
132.(FB) Nick Spray - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=259023445309545&set=p.259023445309545&type=3 (55k miles).
In the latter list some people claim that the LCI bearings (silvery colour) are fine, they're not! As I previously discussed, they have significant wear, I reiterate that I am not claiming they are imminently about to fail in this 2nd list (btw the photo by malek linked below shows a good close up shot of an OEM LCI bearing showing the micro grooves, and despite that only having done 6k miles a lot of the grooves have worn out!).
We simply don't know how much life is left in them, all we do know is that they are excessively worn and are compromised to some fashion.
Oh, and I didn't find a single case in that FB group, during that 5 mth period, of shells that had worn normally, i.e very slightly, like these :-
Good condition
1.krx927 - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=23721827&postcount=807 (65.9k miles. They look good! Unless the dark photos are hiding damage?).
2.deansbimmer - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24489814&postcount=926 (LAST photo only, 26.3 k miles).
3.----Flyin-High---- - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25280091&postcount=1190 (85k miles, 2011 car, good photo and they do look good, with only very slight visible wear. But possibly they had already been replaced?).
Good condition, aftermarket bearings pulled
Deansbimmer - 52k miles, supercharged! VAC/Clevite (increased clearance), 14/1/20 - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25681122&postcount=1386
toolshed - 31k miles, BE bearings, 26/7/18 (only 1 shell shown) - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=23505818&postcount=1114
Malek - 33.5k miles, old design VAC/Clevite (slightly reduced clearance!), 30/12/14 - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1073979
maicol76 - 6-12k miles, lots of track use, VAC bearings, https://www.m3post.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1796920&stc=1&d=1522589580
SYT_Shadow - 25k miles on BE bearings, mostly track use. (No1 mains spun).Photos taken from 'blown engine thread pt2' - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25986925&postcount=93
scrippy - 98k miles on WPC bearings, replaced due to cracked sumps and oil loss! Photo is poor quality. https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22895612&postcount=612
Good condition non S65 bearings
Scharbag - N54 bearings, 85k miles - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25198440&postcount=69 and https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25198501&postcount=1164
Fezza - N55 bearings, 60k miles - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=26463602&postcount=1755
*********************************************
In addition to that I found some people talking complete s***! Like some in this post - https://www.facebook.com/groups/bmwm3v8uk/permalink/556068385104432/
Some people there were saying the shells were fine when they were showing copper! LMFAO, they obviously haven't got a clue what they're talking about!
Simply reading these pdfs (linked below) by King bearings will clearly prove what I'm saying about the lead/copper bearings.
Engine bearings and how they work - https://www.kingbearings.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Engine-Bearings-and-how-they-work.pdf
Engine bearing materials - https://www.kingbearings.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Engine-Bearing-materials.pdf
So, that goes back to my point, hardly any rod bearings that come out of S65s come out in good condition, i.e hardly worn.
And like I said before, if you have seen a ton of photos of them in good nick, then link me up, otherwise you've just seen the odd one, and/or people talking crap, like the above post I linked.
Oh, 1 more point, even if you were one of the lucky few to have good old bearings in them, you can't know that until you've stripped it out.
Are you suggesting that other engines at 100K have anything like that level of wear? Because they don't. At least, the vast majority don't.
The S65 has a serious design flaw which is well known and well documented.
A friend of mine runs a specialist called BMR Performance, he does these quite regularly and they almost always come out looking very knackered.
Even if they look "OK" there might have been a reasonable amount of material worn away, need to check the thickness along the length of the bearing shell with a micrometer and check it against the bearing specs before coming to any conclusion really. I'd also expect to see bearing material in the oil filter, but nobody cuts open oil filters these days.
The ones that are fine are a very small minority. LCI's are much better, but not immune.
I think these are great cars, but anyone who buys one should budget for having the rod bearings done immediately if they haven't already been changed. Just for peace of mind if nothing else. Left long enough, they can and will spin a bearing, or even chuck a rod through the block.
I can think of very few other engines which have such a guaranteed and devastating failure point.
But hey, it is a very highly strung, high revving, naturally aspirated V8, an incredible engine. Manufacturers make mistakes, and this one is fairly easily rectified compared to some, such as the Audi 4.2 V8 plastic timing chain guides which require engine removal and a £4K bill to replace!
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Soldato
- Joined
- 6 Jan 2012
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E46 - rear springs and alternator only problems in 6 years and 100k from new.
E92 - bunch of sensor problems with engine, limp home mode continually, it was back at BMW 3 or 4 times. I moved on after 18 mths. Bad luck i guess.
E92 - bunch of sensor problems with engine, limp home mode continually, it was back at BMW 3 or 4 times. I moved on after 18 mths. Bad luck i guess.
Its not a serious design flaw, its design was road use, autobahn blasting and track usage. Not people driving them hard from cold, but id be interested in knowing what you believe the flaw is? Also the S65 has a paper cartridge filter, its very obvious if any metal is in there as they don't need cutting open.
Why is the LCI much better? The later 702/703 bearing has identical clearances that i think you said were a design flaw on earlier bearings? The change in material was only driven due to EU banning lead in passenger car engines from 2010. This does result in a harder bearing but then a bearing is meant to be sacrificial rather than the crank shaft.
Surely, the flaw is that the bearings wear prematurely? No other engine I know of does its rod bearings in in such a small amount of miles. And they can't all have been thrashed from cold on the regular?
I don't think the clearances are any different, but the bearing material doesn't wear down as quickly because it is harder as you say. I imagine the root of the issue must be the clearance/tolerance between bearing shell and crankshaft.
Out of curiosity have you had the bearings done on yours if you still have it? Im guessing not?
I don't think the clearances are any different, but the bearing material doesn't wear down as quickly because it is harder as you say. I imagine the root of the issue must be the clearance/tolerance between bearing shell and crankshaft.
Out of curiosity have you had the bearings done on yours if you still have it? Im guessing not?
Associate
- Joined
- 26 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 577
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- UK, Surrey, Guildford
Agreed, not to mention cars that are often thrashed from cold (e.g rental cars and people who haven't got a clue, or don't give damn!) don't seem to suffer from failed bearings en masse.
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The flaw is insufficient clearances at the tighter end of their tolerance range combined with a fairly thick oil, especially on the earlier lead/copper bearings, but still somewhat on the LCI bearings. The later bearings do have slightly more clearance, as in there min gap is bigger, see here
The bearing clearance tolerance range came from BMWTIS originally (only in the past few years though!), which you could also find in the newTIS website, but the latter has been shut down now
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Fair point, getting photos of good bearings on high mileage engines is on my 'to do' list, atm the only one I have stumbled across (in FB) is this one from an e36 318is with 154k on the clock (which apparently came from some other forum).
Their is the one with 98k from an M3 (linked in my previous post), but the photo quality is poor
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The flaw is insufficient clearances at the tighter end of their tolerance range combined with a fairly thick oil, especially on the earlier lead/copper bearings, but still somewhat on the LCI bearings. The later bearings do have slightly more clearance, as in there min gap is bigger, see here
The bearing clearance tolerance range came from BMWTIS originally (only in the past few years though!), which you could also find in the newTIS website, but the latter has been shut down now
.Furloughed again!
Fair point, getting photos of good bearings on high mileage engines is on my 'to do' list, atm the only one I have stumbled across (in FB) is this one from an e36 318is with 154k on the clock (which apparently came from some other forum).
Their is the one with 98k from an M3 (linked in my previous post), but the photo quality is poor
Your confusing a flaw with a result.
No I've not felt the need. I got mine at 32k 4 years ago. Now 61k.
Surely part of the design causing an issue with the longevity of a component when it is used as intended, is the definition of a design flaw?
Obviously its entirely up to you but I'd definitely consider doing them soon because you never know. They might be totally fine, but they might not be. It would play on my mind.
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Oct 2002
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- 18,238
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Only a generalisation here but few rentals are either +3500cc or 100bhp/litre. Let alone both.