EV general discussion

Battery autonomy ~30mi delineates a hybrid from a congestion-charge perspective - no ?
so, the circa 8KW battery, that could get you across london if it were fully charged; but, practically, have they done a survey to show how much hybrids use their ICE in London.

Haven't looked if the mpg sites have results from PHEV+EV urban owners, to see what mpg (WLTP aside) they get, which, you'd want to know, if you wanted one.
 
WJA96 said:
Really, you only need to constantly top up, so 30 minutes gets you 3.5kW on most chargers and that’s 15 miles of range. 30 minutes on a mid-tier 50kW charger gets 23kW or 130 miles and 30 minutes on a Supercharger type charger gets you 70kW which is a full charge on most BEVs.

I do think the tax breaks are structured badly though. £350 per charge point is about 25% of the price of installing a 3-phase 22kW charger but it’s only 4% of the price to install a 50kW DC charger and that’s not anything like enough of an incentive. I can write off the full cost of a car in 1 year. Let me do the same with the charger at least.
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Yes its more about energy grazing rather than guzzling.

I don't understand the cost? That might be the different in the charge station but the 22kW 3 phase will cost significantly more with the cost and reality is most cars will only do 11kW as a max.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Yes its more about energy grazing rather than guzzling.

I don't understand the cost? That might be the different in the charge station but the 22kW 3 phase will cost significantly more with the cost and reality is most cars will only do 11kW as a max.
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If you start from the basis that most businesses have 3-phase power available then you want to install a 3-phase 22kW charger because;

1. Most cars today can only charge at 11kW but there are exceptions even today. Soon, who knows?
2. Most of the 3-phase 22kW charge stations have two Type 2 sockets so you can charge two cars at 11kW simultaneously on them.
3. There is no additional cost for 22kW over 11kW in any charge point I've installed. We have the Tesla charge point (£450 and it does single and 3-phase in the same device) and we have the pedestal pod-point (£1150 for 22kW plus installation at about £350 and again it is configurable for 2 x 3.6kW/1 x 7kW or 2 x 11kW/1 x 22kW in the same unit). Wallbox I believe is £600 for the single 22kW charger but it charges at the maximum the car will take.

In terms of what cars can charge at 22kW today - Renault Zoe, Audi eTron and some Tesla Model S and X can use 22kW AC chargers to their full capacity.
 
So it's going to be illegal to take a ICE car on the road in 2050? As in, fully illegal "we'll take it away and crush it"?
 
WJA96 said:
If you start from the basis that most businesses have 3-phase power available then you want to install a 3-phase 22kW charger because;

1. Most cars today can only charge at 11kW but there are exceptions even today. Soon, who knows?
2. Most of the 3-phase 22kW charge stations have two Type 2 sockets so you can charge two cars at 11kW simultaneously on them.
3. There is no additional cost for 22kW over 11kW in any charge point I've installed. We have the Tesla charge point (£450 and it does single and 3-phase in the same device) and we have the pedestal pod-point (£1150 for 22kW plus installation at about £350 and again it is configurable for 2 x 3.6kW/1 x 7kW or 2 x 11kW/1 x 22kW in the same unit). Wallbox I believe is £600 for the single 22kW charger but it charges at the maximum the car will take.

In terms of what cars can charge at 22kW today - Renault Zoe, Audi eTron and some Tesla Model S and X can use 22kW AC chargers to their full capacity.
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yeah sorry I meant the install full system costs, ie running the wires etc and was thinking more in a domestic/existing. Seems EV stations could do being further from the store to reducing ICE’ing but then the cables runs and digging are prohibitive. Split post 22kW seems a sensible half way house to me aswell.

I’m tempted by wallbox, I’ve gone off Ohme. Hate how it’s cable goes in both ends, I’ve got an I-PACE due and without the commute I think I’ll be okay with a granny charger for now.
 
Tute said:
So it's going to be illegal to take a ICE car on the road in 2050? As in, fully illegal "we'll take it away and crush it"?
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At least I've got a timespan for the electric conversion of the Baja.

I think most of us should be more concerned about actually reaching 2050 than what old banger we want to 'save'.
 
WJA96 said:
Where have you seen that stated?
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Part of the same proposals are something like 'net zero emissions by 2050' isn't it?

I suspect without clarification of what the 'net zero' means, many places probably report it as a complete ban on any non-EV car by 2050
 
It’s net zero, not zero emission. Net zero means emissions can be offset, e.g. planing trees.

I haven’t seen any proposals to outright ban ICE vehicles, remember ICE goes well beyond just cars. There is currently no practical solution for the med-long aviation sector and med-long range boats/shipping.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
It’s net zero, not zero emission. Net zero means emissions can be offset, e.g. planing trees.
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This exactly what i'm getting at - even the BBC report the target as simply 'virtually zero carbon by 2050' - no explanation of net zero or offsetting etc., it's no wonder people get confused and think what's coming in will be significantly more disruptive than it may actually be.
 
I expect there is going to be one hell of a lot of offsetting going on come 2050 and no doubt all sorts of shenanigans going on with credits and adjustments/estimates to make the numbers work. Might as well throw in a bit of, X government didn’t do enough early enough for good measure.
 
WJA96 said:
Where have you seen that stated?
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Nowhere but i’m confused as to what happens on the 1st of January 2050. Are we going to be allowed ICE at all or will the police be out on that day stopping anything that emits carbon?

It’s just not clear at all unless i’m missing something. However i’ll be 65 so I doubt it’ll matter much to me personally.
 
Tute said:
Nowhere but i’m confused as to what happens on the 1st of January 2050. Are we going to be allowed ICE at all or will the police be out on that day stopping anything that emits carbon?

It’s just not clear at all unless i’m missing something. However i’ll be 65 so I doubt it’ll matter much to me personally.
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Apart from the 'net zero' stuff, which is a big game of offsetting and carbon credits, what have you read that makes you think 2050 will be a specific problem - people will answer better if they can see what you've read suggesting that.
 
In 2050 non EV cars will likely be 15 to 20 year old high mileage hacks that today most people would not drive or be expensive to maintain as the usual stuff like steering and suspension that fails today will be largely similar and still fail.
 
It will also be much harder to get fuel, the vast majority of today’s filling stations will be unviable once alternative furled vehicles start taking over the market.

Ignoring any tax changes, those which are left will have to take a bigger margin per litre to make the business work pushing up the price.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
It will also be much harder to get fuel, the vast majority of today’s filling stations will be unviable once alternative furled vehicles start taking over the market.

Ignoring any tax changes, those which are left will have to take a bigger margin per litre to make the business work pushing up the price.
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It's been hard to get 4-star for older cars for quite some time, and yet folks still manage somehow. One thing I think we're going to have to come to terms with is that there are thousands, maybe even tens of thousands of classic vehicle owners in the UK and they won't want to watch their prized cars become a) undriveable and b) worthless over the next 30 years.

The reason I asked the question was that I hadn't that explicitly stated anywhere but when you see cities like Rotterdam imposing blanket bans on EU3 diesels that seemed quite remote from my world, that if Rotterdam (or any other big city) just said, no cars manufactured before 2000 or no cars manufactured before 1980 and suddenly a lot of folks are stuck with static exhibition pieces.
 
Hagar said:
In 2050 non EV cars will likely be 15 to 20 year old high mileage hacks that today most people would not drive or be expensive to maintain as the usual stuff like steering and suspension that fails today will be largely similar and still fail.
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Yes, there will be a lot of them about but there will also be the people who are preserving what will then be classic cars. Great cars now will certainly be classics in 2050. Why shouldn't people still be loving their NIssan GTR or whatnot in 2050? I've got a couple of 1970's SAABs that will go on forever so long as they're serviced regularly and believe me, they're not clean running. I was looking at options of fuel injection and a retrofit 1970's US spec catalyst to make them cleaner (and I still might fit something) but the lovely Government said it was OK, and I didn't need tax or even an MOT anymore. So if I don't have to pass an MOT because like most classic car owners I love the cars and keep them running as well as possible, why would I do restomods if I don't need to?
 
WJA96 said:
Yes, there will be a lot of them about but there will also be the people who are preserving what will then be classic cars. Great cars now will certainly be classics in 2050. Why shouldn't people still be loving their NIssan GTR or whatnot in 2050? I've got a couple of 1970's SAABs that will go on forever so long as they're serviced regularly and believe me, they're not clean running. I was looking at options of fuel injection and a retrofit 1970's US spec catalyst to make them cleaner (and I still might fit something) but the lovely Government said it was OK, and I didn't need tax or even an MOT anymore. So if I don't have to pass an MOT because like most classic car owners I love the cars and keep them running as well as possible, why would I do restomods if I don't need to?
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I'm all for classic cars, but they're not mainstream. I love cars with carbs and cb distributors that I can set up myself without a ton of gear. I've owned quite a few in my 50 years of driving.
 
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