The Great Decline

I think northern Ireland is the biggest gainer. Then Wales and then Scotland.

If we actually gave Ireland back the rest would be a lot better off and so would the Irish.

It would also help Brexit negotiations. But that would be too smart a thing to do.

Oh Mr intelligent rich successful Gucci belt is demonstrating his superiority again. Hello, Earth to Psycho Sonny? Reality wants a word with you. What is this nonsense about giving Ireland back? Do you even know the truth before spouting these warmongering lies?


NI was SETTLED not stolen! The same way Scotland was SETTLED by the IRISH! Who invaded who first? The Irish invaded the Western Isles in the 13th Century and colonized it. Before my ancestors left the border area of Scotland the Irish had colonized half of it and made Gaelic culture superior to Pictish culture. The word Loch is Irish for lake. Rory Mc Cann etc is an Irish name. So if you give Ireland back do they also give Scotland back?


Or is this more uneducated drivel about shoving all the NI people into a hostile United Ireland and also letting the Irish Gaels take Scotland? Who actually makes up the majority of the SNP? Irish migrants! Infact if you knew your history you would know they colonized in the 13th and then later in the 1800's came again with the famine wave. No one did anything unlike the Ulster settlers who were butchered in the Irish rebellion. Some parts of NI up to 25%+ of the local popuation were murdered. Babys and women stripped naked in winter and forced into freezing rivers and clubbed if they tried to reach the shore. Google the Portadown Massacre and tell me why we should give anything back? You would never spout your drivel in NI thats for sure Sonny you do it all over the internet where you can hide behind your Gucci monitor! :D


NI fought for England in WW2 anytime she called we came and always will i hope people will remember this and the truth of history and rightfully shame people who try to talk like Sonny does. Shame on ya Mr successful intelligent business man who claims that others are not as successful or as intelligent as him! LOL!
 
Since we are on that topic we could give the land (now Pakistan) back to India, I wonder how many would want to leave The Land of Milk and Honey to go back home. ;)
 
Oh Mr intelligent rich successful Gucci belt is demonstrating his superiority again. Hello, Earth to Psycho Sonny? Reality wants a word with you. What is this nonsense about giving Ireland back? Do you even know the truth before spouting these warmongering lies?


NI was SETTLED not stolen! The same way Scotland was SETTLED by the IRISH! Who invaded who first? The Irish invaded the Western Isles in the 13th Century and colonized it. Before my ancestors left the border area of Scotland the Irish had colonized half of it and made Gaelic culture superior to Pictish culture. The word Loch is Irish for lake. Rory Mc Cann etc is an Irish name. So if you give Ireland back do they also give Scotland back?


Or is this more uneducated drivel about shoving all the NI people into a hostile United Ireland and also letting the Irish Gaels take Scotland? Who actually makes up the majority of the SNP? Irish migrants! Infact if you knew your history you would know they colonized in the 13th and then later in the 1800's came again with the famine wave. No one did anything unlike the Ulster settlers who were butchered in the Irish rebellion. Some parts of NI up to 25%+ of the local popuation were murdered. Babys and women stripped naked in winter and forced into freezing rivers and clubbed if they tried to reach the shore. Google the Portadown Massacre and tell me why we should give anything back? You would never spout your drivel in NI thats for sure Sonny you do it all over the internet where you can hide behind your Gucci monitor! :D


NI fought for England in WW2 anytime she called we came and always will i hope people will remember this and the truth of history and rightfully shame people who try to talk like Sonny does. Shame on ya Mr successful intelligent business man who claims that others are not as successful or as intelligent as him! LOL!

Argh but the Protestants never did anything wrong to the Catholics? Or do you just forget that part of history as it doesn't suit your sectarian beliefs?
 
NI is a hugely complex issues with few people wanting the same thing - there are plenty on either side of the border who are happy or unhappy with the current situation, plenty that don't see eye to eye despite wanting the same thing and vice versa.
 
We will keep falling as well, The left made sure of that. Ever looked at your average University kid there days? The average poster on here? The BBC? When they are finnished with us we will be in total farcial ruin. Our population will resemble the third world mixed with iraq.
There's no "we" in UK :p

There is a decline - a very obvious one - but it's mostly for the poor and less well off. The have-nots are certainly experiencing decline. You just have to walk around most housing estates built a few years ago, and witness how many places are complete dumps and nobody even has money to fix basic stuff (or they're just renting so don't care even if they had the money, which they don't :p)

Those people with money in this country are not really seeing any decline, as far as I can tell. In fact they're probably enjoying life more than ever.

So the answer, as always, is just to be loaded. The UK has always embraced the class system. Always. And although over recent decades we all expected life to improve and for the future to always be better, it is pretty plain to see that this is now going to be a pipe dream for many.

Don't worry about it, tho. Hardly anyone in the UK cares about anyone other than themselves/their immediate family.
 
It's always someone else's fault isn't it?

If it's the 'left' that have destroyed this country (supposedly), then what does that say about the 'right'?

The constituency of personal responsibility...
 
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We over extended with few resources of our own. If our predecessors had been less arrogant and hadn't pushed the thirteen colonies away we'd probably be in a strong position still. I also sometimes wonder if many of our best were lost in the two world wars.
 
White people believed they were chosen by god to rule over the savages, however ideas have changed with time.

Why try to make it out to be about race? pretty much every group of people in the world have had a go at empire building?

It's funny how a little island can build an empire, but maybe it makes sense, because we are much more constrained. We need to go and conquer in order to get more "stuff".

we spent 1000's of years being attacked before we built the empire?
 
How did we do this to ourselves?
we didn;t america did it to us during WW2 maybe research about it

in ww2 we were still the most powerful country in the world pretty much

what they did to us, what happened to the pound and the $ on oil trades etc... oh its glossed over America totally didn't enrich themselves from a war at our expense lol.....

our best ally? what kind of alliance involves one country taking the others place? and letting you suffer.


there own people who did the lend lease deal, later they admitted the terms were a huge mistake cos it left America without a powerful ally..... MORONS but all they cared about was greed

BTW Churchill was a crap prime minister as well yet hes hailed as some war hereo, he was an utter moron, almost as bad as hitler and stalin, look what happened to india in ww2..........
 
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As we have seen, a shift to service sector and imported labour has the problem of alienating the native working class. Brexit isn't going to solve anything for them. In fact rather than taking back control we will likely have more foreign interests buying up our assets.


I predict towards the end of the century, when the native population will be a minority, tension and resentment will start. There will be people unhappy that their country was sold out for a quick buck under the disguise of diversity and that they now no longer have their own nation.


Many who can afford it will emigrate to New Zealand, Australia and Canada. Those who can't will be stuck with civil unrest and government likely to install a Chinese style social credit system to keep order.


I think this can be avoided but I think it would take a new and massive technological revolution. In a declining society people are far more likely to become tribal and it will take an authoritarian government to keep order.
 
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France ? Good joke lol

@Psycho Sonny

Exactly the collapse of certain high street stores was just the final nail in the coffin for years of depravation after overseas investors took over

Scotland would be better off independent?
 
I think the UK needs to retire from its current form of ‘patriotism’.

Things like: we had an empire, we won WW2, we have great music, we have iconic TV, we have a royal family. Wow aren’t we amazing, look at what we’ve done.

It’s just so ****ing passive and lazy!

To be great we need to focus on what we are doing now. As individuals.

Thing like: being courageous, contributing, seeking justice and liberty, wanting to make things better.

Those things above all require effort - a choice to seek out bona fide betterment and feel like it’s an honour to be a part of it.

It’s almost as if we need to look over and be inspired by some of the good parts of US patriotism.

I wonder how it would go down if I sat in my End Of Year Review at work and just kept referencing the great things I did back in 2014.

Patriotic entitlement by way of history is a terrible way to justify ones importance.
 
France ? Good joke lol

@Psycho Sonny

Exactly the collapse of certain high street stores was just the final nail in the coffin for years of depravation after overseas investors took over

Scotland would be better off independent?

Possibly, possibly not. However at least it would be felt that the desires of the Scottish people are being listened to by their leaders. Something which isn’t felt at the minute across large swathes of the population. The Conservative government is very London centric and then South England. And whilst I do somewhat get why this is, people in Scotland feel very disenfranchised.
We were told a lie about voting to remain in the EU as it was the only way we’d stay in the UK. Again, Scotland voted to remain in the EU. The uk is likely going to be worse off out of Europe so perhaps an independent Scotland as part of Europe wouldn’t be as worse off than a part of the union outside Europe. However, as the negotiations for Brexit have shown nothing is really known and pretty much everything is conjecture.

Self determination is felt as being more important than the gdp of the nation. That’s often not understood by the pro union side.
Economically, an independent Scotland will be ok. We aren’t going to be a third world state.

for transparency, I voted to remain in the UK, voted to remain part of the EU and have always voted Lib Dem’s or conservative. And I live in Glasgow...
I was very pro union but it’s clear that the current Westminster government has little thought about Scotland (which may be fair enough as well are a small population) whereas politicians at hollyrood do definitely have Scotland’s interest at the forefront (though they are no doubt as self serving as any other elected official!) and to me it seems that with the likely disaster of Brexit it is making more and more sense to accept Scotland may be better alone. I’m not a independence voter yet, but I’ll be looking at it a lot more favourably at the next vote.

The main stumbling block to an independent Scotland isn’t the vote, as it’ll pass if it was ran today, but it’s getting that vote in the first place. Ultimately Boris won’t permit it, and that’ll only create more supporters of independence. Would a Labour Party campaign on allowing an independence referendum? I suspect when the results are in for the next Scottish election and the snp have an even bigger majority and the conservatives don’t take a single seat then I think they will...
 
Possibly, possibly not. However at least it would be felt that the desires of the Scottish people are being listened to by their leaders. Something which isn’t felt at the minute across large swathes of the population. The Conservative government is very London centric and then South England. And whilst I do somewhat get why this is, people in Scotland feel very disenfranchised.
We were told a lie about voting to remain in the EU as it was the only way we’d stay in the UK. Again, Scotland voted to remain in the EU. The uk is likely going to be worse off out of Europe so perhaps an independent Scotland as part of Europe wouldn’t be as worse off than a part of the union outside Europe. However, as the negotiations for Brexit have shown nothing is really known and pretty much everything is conjecture.

Self determination is felt as being more important than the gdp of the nation. That’s often not understood by the pro union side.
Economically, an independent Scotland will be ok. We aren’t going to be a third world state.

for transparency, I voted to remain in the UK, voted to remain part of the EU and have always voted Lib Dem’s or conservative. And I live in Glasgow...
I was very pro union but it’s clear that the current Westminster government has little thought about Scotland (which may be fair enough as well are a small population) whereas politicians at hollyrood do definitely have Scotland’s interest at the forefront (though they are no doubt as self serving as any other elected official!) and to me it seems that with the likely disaster of Brexit it is making more and more sense to accept Scotland may be better alone. I’m not a independence voter yet, but I’ll be looking at it a lot more favourably at the next vote.

The main stumbling block to an independent Scotland isn’t the vote, as it’ll pass if it was ran today, but it’s getting that vote in the first place. Ultimately Boris won’t permit it, and that’ll only create more supporters of independence. Would a Labour Party campaign on allowing an independence referendum? I suspect when the results are in for the next Scottish election and the snp have an even bigger majority and the conservatives don’t take a single seat then I think they will...
I am English (I consider myself British before English though). I didn't want Scotland to leave during the last independence vote and was glad they voted to remain. Also in the interests of transparency I voted to remain in the EU and generally also vote Conservative or Lib Dem. But if I were Scottish I'd probably be voting to leave now. I can understand why they would want to, especially if they felt they could rejoin the EU.

I have a question. In the event of Scotland voting in the future to leave the UK how would it be defined whether or not you're Scottish? I might be missing something simple because there must be a list of people eligible to vote. But was that right to vote simply based on living and therefore having a right to vote in a constituency in Scotland? What would stop me moving to Scotland, declaring myself to be Scottish, and leaving the UK if they voted to leave? How do we determine someone is Scottish now?

Sorry if that's an obvious question.
 
France ? Good joke lol

@Psycho Sonny

Exactly the collapse of certain high street stores was just the final nail in the coffin for years of depravation after overseas investors took over

Scotland would be better off independent?

Nobody can say for sure if Scotland would be better off or worse independent. However they wouldn't just collapse into poverty. They would be fine overall.

The issue is money doesn't stay within the UK. For every £100 spent ideally you want as much of that staying here.

There is no point saying our GDP is this and that when all the money is flooding out of the country so they need to keep printing more on a daily basis to keep the country going.

The UK is failing. Wages have been stagnant for 20 years yet house prices have tripled in the same time period.

Now I'm not going into the whole buy to let debate it's really a wage issue. If people earned triple what they do now they wouldn't care.

Other countries like Canada have a higher minimum wage than us. How is that possible? People in these countries are earning 2-3 times more for similar job bs I've checked and if you are self employed you are earning 5-10 times more. The problem now is to buy even a half decent small accomodation in a city your talking £600k starting prices for like a 2 bedroom flat. People go on about London house prices they think wow look how expensive they are whereas in reality London house prices wouldn't even get you a quarter of the equivalent house in Vancouver.

However in Vancouver wages are much better, quality of life is much better, the people are better.

Why are they thriving? Because a lot of the money spent their stays there. They grow a lot of their own produce. They have massive amounts of forests with natural wood resources. Miles of sweetcorn, blueberries, etc.

They are actually producing products people need and want on a large scale.

Scotland has whisky which is world famous. We need more home grown products like this that our own people want and so do other countries.

Germany has done so well essentially just off the back of its car industry.

Japan off electronics and cars.

Korea off electronics and cars.

So you have to look at what do people need and how can we provide it.

Homes
Cars
Electronics
Food and drink

We cannot supply homes in other countries. But maybe we could supply essential raw materials if we got an industry going.

Cars. Well we would need the likes of jaguar, Aston Martin, rolls Royce to band together and possibly use all their expertise to compete with Tesla and Toyota and BMW, etc make a car for the masses that's actually decent.

Electronics, we have small companies here and there. In fact it's a Scottish company that makes the DAC's that go into most mobile phones they are a world leader in sound quality.

We need more innovative solutions and ideas within the electronic components market. We won't be able to make CPUs or gpu. But if we focus on a few essential parts here and there the expertise will grow where they can diversify into more than just DAC's.

Wolfson microelectronics was a Scottish company headquartered in Edinburgh. Was bought out by cirrus logics in America in 2014.

The government need to stop foreign companies buying up our best and moving them abroad and stop our best leaving the UK for the likes of Singapore like Dyson.

Do whatever it takes even massive tax breaks to keep them here because if you keep them here you keep jobs here and money here and then you reclaim that missing tax back in the long run and then more.

By everything moving abroad we will be just taxing those who are stuck here more even though they don't have much to begin with.

Also do a trump out huge tariffs on foreign products if we have decent alternatives already here.

Why are we buying Swedish furniture made in china when it's essentially cheap dangerous crap? Put tariffs on it and then people will buy British made real wood products that are solid and won't tip over and kill 2-3 year olds.
 
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