Wow, Nvidia have banned Hardware Unboxed from receiving review samples...

[Chuk_Chuk]

there's a reason all high end CG uses physically accurate rendering. traditional rasterization is a box of tricks that can make a very visually pleasing image, but simply can't accurately model light.
.

One of those reasons is that it is cheaper to let a CPU spend 30 hours rendering a frame than to have an artist sit down for 30 hours trying to make it look right, using a bag of tricks.
If using a bag of tricks was cheaper to do than raytracing, the industry would do it (and did do it when CPUs weren't fast enough)

Let the hardware manufacturers charge the reviewer full price for the card. Then you get an unbiased review since hard earned has been spent

BTW They don't always get to keep the cards.

 

[james.miller]

So let me get this straight

Are you seriously telling us that

Sorry, mind wandered reading the thread. what a car crash. This is all i could think about with all this logic leaping going on.

 

[henson0115]

They arent too bothered about the price of the card.. but the millions that they might lose by not having a launch day or pre-release coverage
Linus is just making one-sided arguments, without pre-release CPU/GPU/Laptop videos his media biz might get downsized, thats his main concern
His attempts to hide this "commercial" aspect of his business are praiseworthy..
I find his methods deplorable

regardless of if you agree with him or not isn't the point im trying to make. In any case millions of other people don't find his methods as you do.. who says they have to get them later because they have to pay for them? im only suggesting removing the free aspect.

what do you gain out of a reviewing getting a free gpu vs buying one regardless of anything else? they could still have early access etc through the paid channels ...

 

[henson0115]

Ok, working by this kindergarten logic, if they "had to buy one at retail like everyone else" then how would they be able to review a card and let people know how it performs before it is released, if they can't get one at retail for weeks after launch?



Your post just sounds like you are somewhat bitter that professional reviewers get cards for free whereas you have to pay for them and makes you seem less concerned with the journalistic integrity and instead more about your own financial situation vs theirs.

because you don't agree you think my logic is that of pre school, dude grow up. you cant always agree with people in life doesn't mean you have to result to name calling.

not really, whatever you seem to think id prefer the industry to change as its pretty shady at best. just because you cant see it don't make it not true. I'm not bitter about paying in life, i pay for everything else why would i be bitter about buying a gpu? ive been buying them since the mx440 days ^_^

 

[Humbucker]

One of those reasons is that it is cheaper to let a CPU spend 30 hours rendering a frame than to have an artist sit down for 30 hours trying to make it look right, using a bag of tricks.
If using a bag of tricks was cheaper to do than raytracing, the industry would do it (and did do it when CPUs weren't fast enough)

i think you're missing the point there. for instance, to do global illumination using traditional raster techniques is a massively computationally expensive process that involves recalculating the light pass for every bounce. it's basically a no-go for real time graphics and almost uniformly in games it will be baked into the lightmap of the scene. to do accurate reflections (instead of screen space hacks) through planar reflections, you're asking surfaces to entirely re-render the scene from a different perspective, this is again massively computationally expensive and can't match RT when it comes to things like curved surfaces.

RT makes all these elements that we've either had to work with vague approximations or spend a innordinate amount of render time brute forcing through hacks a reality for real time applications. it's a huge step forward.

 

[Nablaoperator]

regardless of if you agree with him or not isn't the point im trying to make. In any case millions of other people don't find his methods as you do.. who says they have to get them later because they have to pay for them? im only suggesting removing the free aspect.

i am all fine with folks running business, but i only expect them to be honest and not use the well earned social capital for power projection.
Linus and the reviewer-cartel could have just negotiated privately with nvidia, but no, they chose to make an impassioned but dishonest public plea to get their machinations working

Also what you are suggesting is redundant, you just got to rethink about the "real" payoffs and incentives and it should be clear why?

 

[james.miller]

they chose to make an impassioned but dishonest public plea to get their machinations working

Go on, why was Linus dishonest?

 

[henson0115]

i am all fine with folks running business, but i only expect them to be honest and not use the well earned social capital for power projection.
Linus and the reviewer-cartel could have just negotiated privately with nvidia, but no, they chose to make an impassioned but dishonest public plea to get their machinations working

Also what you are suggesting is redundant, you just got to rethink about the "real" payoffs and incentives and it should be clear why?

so you are suggesting we the general public don't get to see the shady stuff happening and its all kept behind closed doors? how does that help anyone but NVidia here? all big companies act like this, the more it comes to light the better for us the general public.
nothing changes though does it, that happens either way no? weve seen it many times before in the current model..

 

[Tiny_D]

Thanks Gregster, i don't have many friends.

But the name Besty contradicts that whole statement!! You were made to be everyone's friend!!

 

[Nablaoperator]

so you are suggesting we the general public don't get to see the shady stuff happening and its all kept behind closed doors? how does that help anyone but NVidia here? all big companies act like this, the more it comes to light the better for us the general public.
nothing changes though does it, that happens either way no? weve seen it many times before in the current model..

Selective transparency is not really something i am happy with. Selective transparency is sometime worse than no transparency. I am just riled up that these folks are just "using" the internet peasantry for unilateral gains.. lets revist Linus' arguments:

• A review is supposed to be a transaction
• The manufacturer used the reviewer as a communication channel to maximise sales
• The manufacturer accordingly provides review samples
• The reviewer on the other hand provides an "unbiased" opinion for the benefit of manufacturer's consumer base

Nowhere does he mention the real payoffs for "professional" reviewers. He also goes on to make an absurd comment on how he can buy 10 RTX3090s with his recently launched mousepad series. If you are okay with his standards of honesty, then i have nothing more to argue.
There is a slight chance that he is thick skulled and couldnt differentiate between "availability" and "cost" of the review sample.

 

[RavenXXX2]

 

[Boomstick777]

Just watched this video,

Jay has gone up in my estimations now, great sum up of the situation and shining a light on how Scummy Nvidia are. Good support for his fellow YouTuber too. Great stuff from Jay.

 

[henson0115]

Selective transparency is not really something i am happy with. Selective transparency is sometime worse than no transparency. I am just riled up that these folks are just "using" the internet peasantry for unilateral gains.. lets revist Linus' arguments:

• A review is supposed to be a transaction
• The manufacturer used the reviewer as a communication channel to maximise sales
• The manufacturer accordingly provides review samples
• The reviewer on the other hand provides an "unbiased" opinion for the benefit of manufacturer's consumer base

Nowhere does he mention the real payoffs for "professional" reviewers. He also goes on to make an absurd comment on how he can buy 10 RTX3090s with his recently launched mousepad series. If you are okay with his standards of honesty, then i have nothing more to argue.
There is a slight chance that he is thick skulled and couldnt differentiate between "availability" and "cost" of the review sample.

my whole point about linus wasn't to get into a debate about him and his tactics etc, i was merely pointing out that its not like they cant afford it, that was all. if that's your view on him then fine, im not going to argue with you about it.

 

[Richdog]

because you don't agree you think my logic is that of pre school, dude grow up. you cant always agree with people in life doesn't mean you have to result to name calling.

not really, whatever you seem to think id prefer the industry to change as its pretty shady at best. just because you cant see it don't make it not true. I'm not bitter about paying in life, i pay for everything else why would i be bitter about buying a gpu? ive been buying them since the mx440 days ^_^

I didn't call you any names. Anyway lets just agree to disagree as I think we are operating on slightly different wavelengths here.

 

[Steedie]

Just watched this video,

Jay has gone up in my estimations now, great sum up of the situation and shining a light on how Scummy Nvidia are. Good support for his fellow YouTuber too. Great stuff from Jay.

You know they went too far when the biggest Nvidia shill in tech releases a video like that

 

[henson0115]

I didn't call you any names. Anyway lets just agree to disagree as I think we are operating on slightly different wavelengths here.

yea my mistake i read your reply to someone else as a reply to me.

 

[humbug]

Sorry, mind wandered reading the thread. what a car crash. This is all i could think about with all this logic leaping going on.

I remember that, Jordan Peterson. Cathy Newman is one of those people who twists what people say into what she wants to hear, and he took her apart for it. it was one of the best things Channel 4 News ever pout out, the telling thing is they thought she won that argument, that is until real people pointed out she was made to look like the narcissist that she is.

 

[henson0115]

I remember that, Jordan Peterson. Cathy Newman is one of those people who twists what people say into what she wants to hear, and he took her apart for it. it was one of the best things Channel 4 News ever pout out, the telling thing is they thought she won that argument, that is until real people pointed out she was made to look like the narcissist that she is.

behaviour especially prevalent in these forums it seems..

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

i think you're missing the point there. for instance, to do global illumination using traditional raster techniques is a massively computationally expensive process that involves recalculating the light pass for every bounce. it's basically a no-go for real time graphics and almost uniformly in games it will be baked into the lightmap of the scene. to do accurate reflections (instead of screen space hacks) through planar reflections, you're asking surfaces to entirely re-render the scene from a different perspective, this is again massively computationally expensive and can't match RT when it comes to things like curved surfaces.

RT makes all these elements that we've either had to work with vague approximations or spend a innordinate amount of render time brute forcing through hacks a reality for real time applications. it's a huge step forward.

Am i reading your comment right?
Are you saying that Raster is more computationally demanding than RT?

Edit: *Looks above* Well this is awkward

 

[Nablaoperator]

i was merely pointing out that its not like they cant afford it, that was all

That's actually redundant.. Linus values the "availability" of the sample much more than its "cost", because it is "availability" that contributes to his millions, compared to which the "cost" is chump change and is not even inside the consideration set when Linus negotiates his terms.