if you want proper real time global illumination and accurate reflections, yes.
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Wow, Nvidia have banned Hardware Unboxed from receiving review samples...
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if you want proper real time global illumination and accurate reflections, yes.
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that word again. Again if you read back what i was saying free vs cost doesn't have to affect availability before launch, i/e nothing changes other than cost.. you seem to want to argue with me about linus, i do not care about linus
go argue with him about it.
Linus was honest to a fault in his video, and his anger was completely genuine, I have zero doubt about that.
He didn't talk about the "real payoffs" simply because it goes without saying. Everybody with half a brain understands how they make money from their reviews and it wasn't the point of the video.
Not absurd at all. It's entirely plausible and it's probably true. The whole point of stating that fact was to demonstrate the difference between "availability and cost" as you put it, to make it absolutely clear that reviewers need review samples because of availability and not because of cost.
In many cases review samples are loaners anyway and have to be sent back.
How you could watch that video and do those kind of mental gymnastics to come away with what you have done kind of blows my mind to be honest.
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i think he has a personal issue with linus to be honest..
I never mentioned real time in the post your orginally quoted, it was reference to high end CG, as you put it.
You seem to be summing together the amount of computational work that is done to achieve the end image (rather than the only looking at the work done at "run time") to reach your conclusion. Would that be a fair statement?
I don't particularly agree with this method.
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that word again. Again if you read back what i was saying free vs cost doesn't have to affect availability before launch, i/e nothing changes other than cost.. you seem to want to argue with me about linus, i do not care about linus
go argue with him about it.
Okay maybe i should try to generalise, lets take a random reviewer A with a large subscriber base..
if "cost" is not a a factor how do you expect it to have any impact on A's assessment?
if "cost" is not a factor how do you expect Nvidia to leverage it as retaliatory measure?
(and dont tell me reviewer A can source the sample from AIB's theres no way that can happen if nvidia is on the offensive)
Do you think "cost" can influence reviewer A or nvidia's behavior if its not a significant factor?
If you are relying on public sentiments then you need to come clear, tell us exactly how much of your annual earnings will be lost if you fail to secure such samples. Otherwise, feel free to negotiate privately, or be branded a politician. And, i dont like politicians, thats a personal thing and thats what drives my mental gymnastics.
Edit:
Yes it is not probably true it is the truth, maybe he can buy 20 3090's.. i have no doubt about that. That argument only weakens his stance doesnt strengthen it, unless its absurd. Why should you be talking about purchasing power when "availability" is the primary consideration? Okay i take back my admission of mental gymnastics, because thats what you got to explain now
Last edited:
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Okay maybe i should try to generalise, lets take a random reviewer A with a large subscriber base..
if "cost" is not a a factor how do you expect it to have any impact on A's assessment?
if "cost" is not a factor how do you expect Nvidia to leverage it as retaliatory measure?
(and dont tell me reviewer A can source the sample from AIB's theres no way that can happen if nvidia is offensive)
Do you think "cost" can influence reviewer A or nvidia's behavior if its not a significant factor?
If you are relying on public sentiments then you need to come clear, tell us exactly how much of your annual earnings will be lost if you fail to secure such samples. Otherwise, feel free to negotiate privately, or be branded a politician. And, i dont like politicians, thats a personal thing and thats what drives my mental gymnastics.
why do we need a manufacturer to leverage a reviewer again?
reviews worked this way in the 90's before YouTube absolutely fine.. they work in other markets fine too.
i can review something more unbiased if i have to source/pay for it myself...
we are all human after all, that makes us susceptible to if when receiving something for free, feeling the need to thank/show appreciation.
i am suggesting that maybe if we take away this aspect we will get a more unbiased POV.
you've lost me at this point mate. are you suggesting that high end 3D uses physically accurate GI only because it's less manpower intensive than baking static lightmaps for every scene like in games?
i don't have to tell you about the limitations of static lighting surely?
It would be good if all these reviewers that have said how bad practice it was put their money where their mouth is and refuse to review nvidia for a generation - a lot of us normal folk check reviews online and if all we hear next time is about amd, i'm sure it'll lose nvidia a few customers.
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Storm in a tea cup, knew it would all blow over.
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Blow over?.. This been the single biggest reaction to Nvidia scummery ever. The damage they have done to themselves is tangible. Hardly blown over. The tech tuber reaction has forced an ending.
Never seen Linus or Jay talk in this way. Got new found respect for these guys.
I wander if Nvidia's forum ghouls will start doing damage control xD
This is a funny thread.
To the RT naysayers - I remember the open GL naysayers too. If you have any idea about any part of a 3D workflow, be it modelling, materials, lighting or animation, then you know there's no going back from this. This is the new hardware acceleration, the open GL, the news polygons, the new HD. Spend a couple of hours in any free 3d package and you'll soon figure out what a leap it really is.
As for evil corp vs shills. Who cares? The whole situation is a massive circle jerk, a symbiotic relationship that would and could be ended in short order by the multinationals in multiple different ways, if they felt it was no longer in their interest. I've had a peek behind the curtain of a large pharma 'RP/Marketing' department, and honestly most people have no idea how deep these mega companies really go when it comes to managing public perceptions. The reality is, Nvidia are stronger than they've ever been, and are trending to become even stronger, and ultimately this tech tuber outrage is like ******* in the wind.
To the RT naysayers - I remember the open GL naysayers too. If you have any idea about any part of a 3D workflow, be it modelling, materials, lighting or animation, then you know there's no going back from this. This is the new hardware acceleration, the open GL, the news polygons, the new HD. Spend a couple of hours in any free 3d package and you'll soon figure out what a leap it really is.
As for evil corp vs shills. Who cares? The whole situation is a massive circle jerk, a symbiotic relationship that would and could be ended in short order by the multinationals in multiple different ways, if they felt it was no longer in their interest. I've had a peek behind the curtain of a large pharma 'RP/Marketing' department, and honestly most people have no idea how deep these mega companies really go when it comes to managing public perceptions. The reality is, Nvidia are stronger than they've ever been, and are trending to become even stronger, and ultimately this tech tuber outrage is like ******* in the wind.
I guess for the YT generation, sure. But the biggest?
The rage when they bought out 3dfx and harvested their ip, apple (figuratively) giving them the middle finger after they refused to accept liability for a manufacturing defect in their gpus and the flurry of class action suites that entailed, Linus Torvaulds (literally) giving them the middle finger for being impossible to work with, paying off developers to cripple performance on the competition - the list goes on. All probably higher profile than this tbh. It won't change them, they have a long and illustrious career of underhanded business practices, and an equally long and illustrious career of getting away with it.
Yes they have been since the start of it, but thankfully not much of a leg to stand on this time.
There are no "RT naysayers" you're twisting the arguments in this thread to suit yourself.
I said that it is one of the reasons (not the only reason) why they moved to RT (recently) is because it is cheaper. As CPUs and GPUs got faster, the time it took to render a frame decreased. That meant studios had two options.
Spend 30 hours rendering a single frame (down from the 100+ hours with slower CPUs) and the associated electricity cost or spend 30 hours (random number to get a point across) paying an artist to use a bag of tricks to get a similar quality.
Edit: I think pixar still uses the hybrid approach for certain scenes, due to rendertime.
Okay maybe i should try to generalise, lets take a random reviewer A with a large subscriber base..
if "cost" is not a a factor how do you expect it to have any impact on A's assessment?
if "cost" is not a factor how do you expect Nvidia to leverage it as retaliatory measure?
(and dont tell me reviewer A can source the sample from AIB's theres no way that can happen if nvidia is on the offensive)
Do you think "cost" can influence reviewer A or nvidia's behavior if its not a significant factor?
If you are relying on public sentiments then you need to come clear, tell us exactly how much of your annual earnings will be lost if you fail to secure such samples. Otherwise, feel free to negotiate privately, or be branded a politician. And, i dont like politicians, thats a personal thing and thats what drives my mental gymnastics.
Edit:
Yes it is not probably true it is the truth, maybe he can buy 20 3090's.. i have no doubt about that. That argument only weakens his stance doesnt strengthen it, unless its absurd. Why should you be talking about purchasing power when "availability" is the primary consideration? Okay i take back my admission of mental gymnastics, because thats what you got to explain now
Did you even read what I wrote?
I think Nvidia have made reviewers sit up and take notice with this. Reviewing is one thing, but when you act as an influencer then there is a problem. I'm sure the next set of NDAs will have a few extra pages to cover such.