*** Cyberpunk 2077 ***

[PrincessFrosty]

I think some people just see it black or white and see what they want to see. I mean if you say something positive you are either defending the game or you are an nvidia fanboy. Lol.

I agree with Princess. I have put around 75 hours in and even though it is not as good as I was expecting it has been a lot of fun and has me hooked. Now that I have run out of any missions to do, I am finishing of all the achievements. Only a few games ever get me to do that as I don't tend to give a toss about them.

And if you look at my posts throughout this thread even I bounced between liking and disliking certain aspects of the game as I played it through. How I thought the city was kind of a prop or stage for the storytelling and essentially coming to an acceptance that it was a narrative driven role playing game and NOT a sandbox style game like GTA. Which made deficiencies in things like police altercations kinda not matter to me, because I'm not tearing up the town like an unhinged maniac, which I (and most others) end up doing in GTA.

There's nothing wrong with having an even handed view of the game, you don't need to be dragged into the camp of unapologetic adoration or intense hate. Apparently because I (and others) have a lot of fun playing what I consider to be a really good game, that constitutes a "defence" of the game. But a lot of this is basically just expectations, I have much more grounded expectations because first of all i don't listen to marketing, if you think marketing will be fair or balanced then you're just niave beyond belief. I didn't expect CDPR to produce a large city based game with the kind of feature complexity of GTA V in a single dev cycle, such an expectation is completely unreasonable not just for CDPR but any large studio. But it's not unreasonable to expect the can manage it with a few iterations with patches, expansions and hopefully, fingers crossed, sequels.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

Except I didn't quote a post to try and convince someone the game is bad/good. I just pointed out the difference between the bugs and engine/design choices or limitations due to time or whatever reason

@PrincessFrosty I have no argument to argue here, you are in complete defence mode because people are comparing the game to one made almost 20 years ago.
They are doing it for a reason. I have no idea why you care so much to try explain or make an excuse for why the game fell short in certain areas.

I'll condense my original comment so you don't need to reply in flat out defence of the game as an in depth analysis of 20 years of video games is not required here.
Original Comment:
Lots of games release with bugs these are sometimes inevitable and will get patched.
The reason people are comparing the game to GTA series is because some of the much older GTA games had better implementations of AI, physics,water, character animations, explosions etc.
They are not saying that everything in GTA is better. I think we can end the conversation here.

But for the most part they're not. I think there's been a couple of direct comparisons to GTA 3, but nothing that sparked any real discussion. The video comparisons which people made, the compilation of comparisons that sparked actual discussion about the deficiencies of Cyberpunk were in comparison to GTA V, not GTA 3. So this kind of nebulous argument that it's struggling vs a game like GTA 3, and so is "embarrasing" and "pathetic" because it's worse than a game nearly 20 years old, is clearly hyperbolic.

The only real discussion of GTA 3 was when I brought it up to demonstrate that GTA itself was also deficient of these features in prior iterations. And posed the question, why is that? The answer to which is largely that these things take time to develop, you have limited development time and so you get limited features per iteration of your game. That's not a "defence" of Cyberpunk or an excuse, it's a description of the reality which we're all bound by. If you understand how this works then you're going to understand that besting GTA V in a single dev cycle is wildly outside of reasonable expectations, CDPR are not an exception, no other studio has done it.

The fact that games are older isn't as relevant as you think it is. Time to develop features is way more important than age, the fact that GTA has had nearly 2 decades of continual development is way more important for its feature set than how new it is, because the bottleneck for most of its features is simply development time. And the hint for this is that nothing it does is technically very difficult. Detecting if a grenade has gone off under water or not, and then drawing specific effects on the explosions is neither technically challenging nor computationally expensive. It just takes time to implement along with 1000's of other little details.

It's NOT defence of the game, it's about priming expectations for what is or is not reasonable. You'll note that we don't disagree in the slightest about the deficiencies of the game.

 

[TNA]

And if you look at my posts throughout this thread even I bounced between liking and disliking certain aspects of the game as I played it through. How I thought the city was kind of a prop or stage for the storytelling and essentially coming to an acceptance that it was a narrative driven role playing game and NOT a sandbox style game like GTA. Which made deficiencies in things like police altercations kinda not matter to me, because I'm not tearing up the town like an unhinged maniac, which I (and most others) end up doing in GTA.

There's nothing wrong with having an even handed view of the game, you don't need to be dragged into the camp of unapologetic adoration or intense hate. Apparently because I (and others) have a lot of fun playing what I consider to be a really good game, that constitutes a "defence" of the game. But a lot of this is basically just expectations, I have much more grounded expectations because first of all i don't listen to marketing, if you think marketing will be fair or balanced then you're just niave beyond belief. I didn't expect CDPR to produce a large city based game with the kind of feature complexity of GTA V in a single dev cycle, such an expectation is completely unreasonable not just for CDPR but any large studio. But it's not unreasonable to expect the can manage it with a few iterations with patches, expansions and hopefully, fingers crossed, sequels.

I won't lie, I probably was a bit naive expecting some ground breaking stuff from them which did not come into fruition. Perhaps they may have been able to deliver it had they not gone open world and done hubs like Deus Ex.

But anyway, I really do think given time they will keep adding and improving stuff over expansions and sequels. They just need to stick to Night City and keep improving it. They can add more areas also. End of the day Cyberpunk and Deus Ex type games are one of my favourite kind and I want to keep seeing them being made. Not interested in another COD/Battlefield or whatever.

Oh and I completely agree with there being nothing wrong with having an even handed view of the game. That is where I find myself, loving it, yet somewhat disappointed at the same time.

 

[Nexus18]

Love GTA 5 but I just prefer cyberpunk in almost every way (story and characters are both on par though), the only thing which is a hundred times better than CP is the driving, playing gta 5 afterwards make you realise just how shockingly bad the driving really is in CP

 

[Destination]

Going to make a point here.
I so hate driving in cyberpunk, but the bit muscle cars, I just have to wonder if that is how they might actually handle.
Or.if it just terrible....

Ps Still never forgiven for the tins in a paper bag from vending machines.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

Going to make a point here.
I so hate driving in cyberpunk, but the bit muscle cars, I just have to wonder if that is how they might actually handle.
Or.if it just terrible....

Ps Still never forgiven for the tins in a paper bag from vending machines.

The handling of the cars in general is not good, but later on when you get faster or heavier cars it seems a bit more appropriate for the game. I tend to zip about in the Rayfield Caliburn which for its speed handles better, it's tricky on a keyboard but you get used to it quite fast.

 

[ianh]

The handling of the cars in general is not good, but later on when you get faster or heavier cars it seems a bit more appropriate for the game. I tend to zip about in the Rayfield Caliburn which for its speed handles better, it's tricky on a keyboard but you get used to it quite fast.

I like the Mizutani Shion "Coyote" which is a Badlands style high powered turbo car which makes some awesome dump-valve noises (very 90's Japanese inspired sounds) as well as being the 2nd fastest car in the game IIRC at 200mph (or more likely KPH judging it visually) and it handles far better than most with way less fish-tailing than the other fast cars (feels 4WD compared to others feeling RWD but nothing is ever mentioned about its drivetrain).

 

[arknor]

The handling of the cars in general is not good, but later on when you get faster or heavier cars it seems a bit more appropriate for the game. I tend to zip about in the Rayfield Caliburn which for its speed handles better, it's tricky on a keyboard but you get used to it quite fast.

I got used to the handling stupidly fast with a keyboard, just let off the gas on corners or if your fishtailing.

btw in the race missions it seems like the AI cars just rubberband based on your speed, because I had a huge crash in the final race and all the AI cars just slowed right down.... waiting for me

 

[DanF]

I got used to the handling stupidly fast with a keyboard, just let off the gas on corners or if your fishtailing.

btw in the race missions it seems like the AI cars just rubberband based on your speed, because I had a huge crash in the final race and all the AI cars just slowed right down.... waiting for me

Yeah the races where one of the most buggy parts for me, if you look behind while driving then stuff keeps on teleporting in and it's total chaos. Bits of lamps and signs falling on the chasing cars, other cars teleporting in and they drive straight though them. Was pretty funny

 

[TNA]

Ok, so done two endings so far and completed every mission the game has to offer with 80% of the achievements done at this point.

TLDR: I really enjoyed the game, but this is likely because it is exactly the type of game I enjoy being a big Deus Ex fan. The game did not quite live up to the hype and I was honestly expecting something better from CDPR and no I am not talking about the bugs. I talking about a bigger better story with a evolving world where decisions made is side missions would have a big impact on the world and the narrative options involved. Basically something like what Dying Light 2 claims to offer when it comes out.

That said I still really enjoyed what was on offer and will give it a 8.9 out of 10. I was however expecting a 10 out of 10 game so I am a little disappointed. I hope they can build on what they achieved here and offer a lot more for a sequel.



Now for those who want to read something more meaty

So far I have got about 75 hours out of the game. Apart from doing the final mission a few more times so see the other endings and get the last tarot card I have nothing left to do apart from drive/walk around and enjoy visuals on offer at night city. Not tried the rocket launcher arm yet, although I do have the legendary version of it, still enjoying the nano wire as for most of the game I used the gauntlets and mantis blades.

I now have Crafting at level 20 (without cheating or using shortcuts found online) so I will look to get my final build setup. One will be the best possible armour and the other just for looks. Though to be honest I do not need this much armour, I mean even all the police level 4 cannot drop me as I one shot them all in the head

Will also try out all the other body mods. May even respec to try out reflexes and cool. I mean the one good thing is there are individual levels within each category one can level up, so at least there is that to do. Trouble at this point is apart from those little blue stars that appear randomly where you can help cops, what else is there to kill? As I have done everything else. Got about half a million in cash left over so money is not an issue at this point, might craft more and sell and then respec and use the perks elsewhere.

Was planning to play it again from the beginning, but as the game is not as good as I was expecting I will wait and just play the expansions for now and the eventually start a new game in a year or so once we have a GOTY version. In the meantime I will just enjoy whatever they add using my current save.

So what went wrong? Why do I not feel like starting to again? Well simply put they failed to meet my expectations (my fault and their marketing). What they needed to do was have much better narrative options and a world that evolved based on actions I took. That way I would be compelled to play again to see how things would have turned out if I made different decisions. This could all be done independent from the main story if they needed to. Just imagine choices made leading to being welcome by certain gangs and getting unique missions and weapons from them. Like for example only way to get something say the Mantis Blades is through a certain gang that use them or you can get special version of it from them only. Imagine by helping them that gang would be able to expand their territory in night city. You could go full on psycho and kill even your friends, but then that would have consequences also. Basically more of your actions making a change in the world and impacting the experience you have. These are just ideas and not all would necessarily need to be included and I have a bunch more, but certain some. I believe Dying Light 2 devs claim to have something like this which I really look forward to as I enjoyed Dying Light a lot.

I wanted to see conspiracies ala Deus Ex. Something to keep you wanting to dig more. But that would have been a bonus to be fair.

I really wonder which of the endings will end up being canon? Will we see V or Johnny Silverhand in the next game? I hope they move on and just have them as a part of the history of Night City. I mean I do not mind if one of them is in the expansions. But the next game should be set 5-10 years or more into the future where a new character comes in to find Night City more divided due to the vacuum left due to what happened to arasaka. This is where some of the ideas I mentioned above can be incorporated in.

Getting back to the game. I do like the graphics, though it can be a bit of a mixed bag at times as some areas look lush and others no so much. Can’t believe they used 2D cars and had them move that way. Lol. No big deal though, on the whole the graphics were a plus and bugs did not detract much from the game score for me. Not done tests with DLSS and other options yet so do not want to comment on that here, but can say I did like DLSS on Performance mode at 4K which is essentially same as people using DLSS Quality at 1440p as I understand as they are both upscaling from 1080p. I enjoyed the game too much to let any silly things like the light of the back of a car ghosting or whatever some mention get in the way but that is a personal thing I guess. I actually have not even noticed that. But will look into it all more at a later date.

The music and sound were good. I did enjoy some of the tracks, but it could have been better. I prefer the stuff from Deus Ex games personally.

I would have liked to have seen a better RPG system in place in relation to levelling up, tech trees and certainly a better system with weapons. They needed to have done it in a way where finding certain hidden weapons/won/earned weapons to be more special. More unique stuff like skippy for example. Can’t complain too much about it though, again it did not take much away from the game for me due to other issues I had with it mentioned above.

The driving certainly could improve and be more fun, but this also falls in the category that did not detract too much away from the fun as that is not why I play a game like this.

I really liked the game as games go on the whole, I just expected a master piece of a game which they did not deliver. I still like the original Deus Ex more for example, but I would say I enjoyed this more than Deus Ex Mankind Divided which was seriously let down due to poor write and story.

I actually would not have minded if Cyberpunk went down the hubs route like Deus Ex, I know it would have been hard due to it being in Night City. But they could have poured all the man power into bigger hubs and more detailed areas and not needed to bother with cars or none of the open world stuff and used trains to get around from area to area. Basically imagine Mankind Divided on steroids. Basically lost open world and put man hours into a smaller more detailed stuff.

I could go on a lot more really but I do know most do not like walls of text and I have rambled on a lot already.

Just want to finish off by saying I am glad I played it on release. Don’t think the bugs or poor implementation of cops had much of an impact on my enjoyment of the game. The other things I mentioned above would have had a much bigger impact on my enjoyment personally. Overall I know making an open world game like this is not easy and feel CDPR did a good job. I really want to see them build on what they have here and expand and improve Night City. Just imagine all the bugs in this game fixed, promised features added back and seeing a bigger more evolved Night City in a sequel (more of the rooms accessible with things to do in them), that would be awesome. Take my money CDPR

 

[NightSt@lk3r]

I like the Mizutani Shion "Coyote" which is a Badlands style high powered turbo car which makes some awesome dump-valve noises (very 90's Japanese inspired sounds) as well as being the 2nd fastest car in the game IIRC at 200mph (or more likely KPH judging it visually) and it handles far better than most with way less fish-tailing than the other fast cars (feels 4WD compared to others feeling RWD but nothing is ever mentioned about its drivetrain).

They recorded the sounds for it from a 2JZ the engine used in the MK4 Supra

 

[scubes]

Ok, so done two endings so far and completed every mission the game has to offer with 80% of the achievements done at this point.

TLDR: I really enjoyed the game, but this is likely because it is exactly the type of game I enjoy being a big Deus Ex fan. The game did not quite live up to the hype and I was honestly expecting something better from CDPR and no I am not talking about the bugs. I talking about a bigger better story with a evolving world where decisions made is side missions would have a big impact on the world and the narrative options involved. Basically something like what Dying Light 2 claims to offer when it comes out.

That said I still really enjoyed what was on offer and will give it a 8.9 out of 10. I was however expecting a 10 out of 10 game so I am a little disappointed. I hope they can build on what they achieved here and offer a lot more for a sequel.



Now for those who want to read something more meaty

So far I have got about 75 hours out of the game. Apart from doing the final mission a few more times so see the other endings and get the last tarot card I have nothing left to do apart from drive/walk around and enjoy visuals on offer at night city. Not tried the rocket launcher arm yet, although I do have the legendary version of it, still enjoying the nano wire as for most of the game I used the gauntlets and mantis blades.

I now have Crafting at level 20 (without cheating or using shortcuts found online) so I will look to get my final build setup. One will be the best possible armour and the other just for looks. Though to be honest I do not need this much armour, I mean even all the police level 4 cannot drop me as I one shot them all in the head

Will also try out all the other body mods. May even respec to try out reflexes and cool. I mean the one good thing is there are individual levels within each category one can level up, so at least there is that to do. Trouble at this point is apart from those little blue stars that appear randomly where you can help cops, what else is there to kill? As I have done everything else. Got about half a million in cash left over so money is not an issue at this point, might craft more and sell and then respec and use the perks elsewhere.

Was planning to play it again from the beginning, but as the game is not as good as I was expecting I will wait and just play the expansions for now and the eventually start a new game in a year or so once we have a GOTY version. In the meantime I will just enjoy whatever they add using my current save.

So what went wrong? Why do I not feel like starting to again? Well simply put they failed to meet my expectations (my fault and their marketing). What they needed to do was have much better narrative options and a world that evolved based on actions I took. That way I would be compelled to play again to see how things would have turned out if I made different decisions. This could all be done independent from the main story if they needed to. Just imagine choices made leading to being welcome by certain gangs and getting unique missions and weapons from them. Like for example only way to get something say the Mantis Blades is through a certain gang that use them or you can get special version of it from them only. Imagine by helping them that gang would be able to expand their territory in night city. You could go full on psycho and kill even your friends, but then that would have consequences also. Basically more of your actions making a change in the world and impacting the experience you have. These are just ideas and not all would necessarily need to be included and I have a bunch more, but certain some. I believe Dying Light 2 devs claim to have something like this which I really look forward to as I enjoyed Dying Light a lot.

I wanted to see conspiracies ala Deus Ex. Something to keep you wanting to dig more. But that would have been a bonus to be fair.

I really wonder which of the endings will end up being canon? Will we see V or Johnny Silverhand in the next game? I hope they move on and just have them as a part of the history of Night City. I mean I do not mind if one of them is in the expansions. But the next game should be set 5-10 years or more into the future where a new character comes in to find Night City more divided due to the vacuum left due to what happened to arasaka. This is where some of the ideas I mentioned above can be incorporated in.

Getting back to the game. I do like the graphics, though it can be a bit of a mixed bag at times as some areas look lush and others no so much. Can’t believe they used 2D cars and had them move that way. Lol. No big deal though, on the whole the graphics were a plus and bugs did not detract much from the game score for me. Not done tests with DLSS and other options yet so do not want to comment on that here, but can say I did like DLSS on Performance mode at 4K which is essentially same as people using DLSS Quality at 1440p as I understand as they are both upscaling from 1080p. I enjoyed the game too much to let any silly things like the light of the back of a car ghosting or whatever some mention get in the way but that is a personal thing I guess. I actually have not even noticed that. But will look into it all more at a later date.

The music and sound were good. I did enjoy some of the tracks, but it could have been better. I prefer the stuff from Deus Ex games personally.

I would have liked to have seen a better RPG system in place in relation to levelling up, tech trees and certainly a better system with weapons. They needed to have done it in a way where finding certain hidden weapons/won/earned weapons to be more special. More unique stuff like skippy for example. Can’t complain too much about it though, again it did not take much away from the game for me due to other issues I had with it mentioned above.

The driving certainly could improve and be more fun, but this also falls in the category that did not detract too much away from the fun as that is not why I play a game like this.

I really liked the game as games go on the whole, I just expected a master piece of a game which they did not deliver. I still like the original Deus Ex more for example, but I would say I enjoyed this more than Deus Ex Mankind Divided which was seriously let down due to poor write and story.

I actually would not have minded if Cyberpunk went down the hubs route like Deus Ex, I know it would have been hard due to it being in Night City. But they could have poured all the man power into bigger hubs and more detailed areas and not needed to bother with cars or none of the open world stuff and used trains to get around from area to area. Basically imagine Mankind Divided on steroids. Basically lost open world and put man hours into a smaller more detailed stuff.

I could go on a lot more really but I do know most do not like walls of text and I have rambled on a lot already.

Just want to finish off by saying I am glad I played it on release. Don’t think the bugs or poor implementation of cops had much of an impact on my enjoyment of the game. The other things I mentioned above would have had a much bigger impact on my enjoyment personally. Overall I know making an open world game like this is not easy and feel CDPR did a good job. I really want to see them build on what they have here and expand and improve Night City. Just imagine all the bugs in this game fixed, promised features added back and seeing a bigger more evolved Night City in a sequel (more of the rooms accessible with things to do in them), that would be awesome. Take my money CDPR

The only thing they will be building is lego after the law suits lol what settings you playing it on and ill try them on my 3090 when it turns up this week.

 

[gpuerrilla]

The only thing they will be building is lego after the law suits lol what settings you playing it on and ill try them on my 3090 when it turns up this week.

He turned on the vram switch which you will be able to leave open and burn up all that space doing nothing!

 

[TNA]

The only thing they will be building is lego after the law suits lol what settings you playing it on and ill try them on my 3090 when it turns up this week.

Lol.

4K Ultra preset, including RT, DLSS on Performance. Obviously if you are on a patato resolution then you need to have DLSS on Quality.

All basic settings have been turned off.

He turned on the vram switch which you will be able to leave open and burn up all that space doing nothing!

Not a single game yet that needs more than 10GB

 

[ne0]

.

 

[scubes]

Lol.

4K Ultra preset, including RT, DLSS on Performance. Obviously if you are on a patato resolution then you need to have DLSS on Quality.

All basic settings have been turned off.





Not a single game yet that needs more than 10GB

You no me mate always wants the best lol.

 

[TNA]

You no me mate always wants the best lol.

Lol

 

[ianh]

They recorded the sounds for it from a 2JZ the engine used in the MK4 Supra

Makes sense, I had a R34 back in the mid-00's with it's RB25DET engine swapped to a RB26DETT halfway through my ownership, and noise in-game really reminded me of that same inline 6 cyl with turbo's engine sound

 

[Calin Banc]

Thing is that 17 years ago when it was GTA3 it was a lot closer to what Cyberpunk is now in these comparison videos, traffic AI was more basic, general AI of peds was more basic, there was no swimming, there was less dynamic things like burstable tires etc. And it's not because that's a super complex technology that we simply didn't have the CPU or GPU technology to deal with at the time, it was just that GTA is a big and complex game full of lots of mechanics and adding more features is a time and thus a money constraint, each iteration of the game can only add so much development. GTAV is a game which I've argued before is probably too complex to make from scratch, it evolved over many many iterations over the years carrying forward technology and development lessons from prior iterations. When we see a GTA VI I'm sure it'll be a further iteration of the same engine which incorporates everything learned and built so far plus whatever else they add on.

Cyberpunk is an open city game being build not from scratch but at least on an engine that really wasn't designed with these kind of mechanics in mind such as large interactions of roads/vehicles/pedestrians etc. These more nuanced things are missing not because of a bug or because the developers are too stupid or lazy, but because to get parity with something like GTA V on features would probably require another 2-3 years of solid development and testing. This is especially true when you consider the relative size of the development teams and budgets of the studios. if we see a string of Cyberpunk games which I hope we do, then I'm sure you'll see large amounts of additional development with each iteration.

Problem is... Cyberpunk is a regression if you compare it to Witcher 3 in some aspects. If you walk on the path or streets of the city and you'll see people talk, make remarks and act "alive". Some comments are towards Geralt "why does he has two swords, does he tend to lose them?". The quests are also done with a greater care to detail, with characters speaking with Geralt, giving you options what to do at times, etc.It feels more like a book well written while Cyberpunk is more like TV series made in haste and soon cancelled.

Also, while some stuff is about iteration, is also about the hardware you're targeting. GTA 4 was a big jump from GTA SA (or whichever was before GTA4), because the consoles allowed it. Moreover, you have modders adding mechanics and items to games such as Skyrim and ArmA, making no excuse for developers, who know the engine like the back of their hand (or at least should know), to not introduce certain things - other than "why bother, let's leave something for the next game as well!" or simply... rushing things.

Ah okay I wait for the next cyberpunk game then. The fact it's even being compared to an almost 20 year old game is embarassing.
What was the Witcher 3? Build on the engine and redesign the map to be set in the future. Replace horses with cars. To hide behind the fact this is their "first" game is also pathetic.

You don't reinvent the wheel and end up with a square shape and say ah it's our first go.

Horses can turn on the spot, strafe left and right, are smaller and wouldn't represent much of a "visual glitch" if they bump into things; you expect them to be rather malleable - works ok in Witcher as you as pass the streets on horseback. Vehicles on the other hand are rather rigid, can't turn on the spot or strafe (not even bikes), and need to follow certain rules while also being present in greater numbers.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Many people here were praising CDP as being one of the best gaming companies around.

Now look at them