yes - if you are being pedantic on the distinction between energy and power
EV general discussion
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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Thanks. I'll read that and be more precise in future.
Are you trying to be polite? I don't want to be pedantic. I want to be less ignorant. If I'm being ignorant and using the wrong unit then PLEASE tell me because otherwise I'll potentially make a fool of myself again.
It's easier to get your head around if you go back to using joules as the units
A Watt (W) or (kilowatt kW) is effectively another way to describe 'joules per second' so is a rate of use/transfer of energy, a Wh (or kWh) is just a certain defined amount of joules.
This is becoming a thorny issue for Hyundai/Kia owners of MY20 and MY21 cars with the winter conditioning feature. It heats and cools the battery using heat from the motor and inverter and the used air from the cabin but it does that using oil as a coolant and that oil needs to be replaced at 40,000 miles (there is a time as well, but I can't remember it at the moment - probably 4 years) and it's something like £325 for the oil change. So you have a £50 inspection at 1 year/10K miles, a £75 inspection at 2 years/20K miles then another £50 inspection at 3 years/30K miles then £400 at 4 years/40K. It's upsetting a couple of owners who didn't check. Luckily I won't have mine that long.
I meant if I am being pedantic, you had provided enough information originally to see what you meant.
numerically, I find the manufacturers obfuscation of cars aero/cd annoying, which require an adjunct of the frontal area to make some kind of comparative design/drag analysis ..
take note MrMusk.
Soldato
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Its one to watch for as its makes a huge difference to how the sentence and readings work
ICE
Power = horsepower
Energy = litres of fuel.
BEV
Power = kW
Energy = kWh
Using 50kW per hour requires 50kWh of capacity - this happens to be understood also as kW per Hr but the SI units for capacity don't work in that context - you end up with Joules per square unit of time.
Same with a 7kW charger, often people call them 7kWh. I can see why but its the wrong 'EV grammar'
Thanks. I appreciate the education. While I'm all for a bit of leeway in precision because not everyone is highly educated in every field, if I can be precise and correct in how I communicate then that makes me happy! Cheers.
I just tested. The battery was reading 100%, however, I had nipped to the shop a couple miles down the road and back today already and that had heater, seat and steering wheel on, so I was surprised it read 100% to start (maybe was really 99.5% then?).
I started the heating, 21c, defrost front and back, heated steering wheel. Left it ten mins and it's now 98%. Range states it has dropped from 148 to 140 miles, but I'm wary exactly how accurate that is. I'd say a little over 1% to heat and it's toasty warm in ten mins.
I started the heating, 21c, defrost front and back, heated steering wheel. Left it ten mins and it's now 98%. Range states it has dropped from 148 to 140 miles, but I'm wary exactly how accurate that is. I'd say a little over 1% to heat and it's toasty warm in ten mins.
BEVs (not including hybrids) made up 54% of the new car market in Norway in 2020:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/05/electric-cars-record-market-share-norway
66.7% in Dec. They were 1% of the Norwegian market a decade ago. Forecast is for >65% this year overall.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/05/electric-cars-record-market-share-norway
66.7% in Dec. They were 1% of the Norwegian market a decade ago. Forecast is for >65% this year overall.
I don't know the current details and I don't have time to go digging, but electric cars were (and possibly still are) exempt from all sorts of local taxes, including registration costs, which are 150%+, 25% VAT and other things.
However, shows what is possible.
-edit: yes, emissions-free cars in Norway are not liable for VAT or registration duties.
e.g. new Golf 8 starts from the equivalent of £32,000 - 50% more than the UK
Is that pre-heating for the battery or the cabin?
I must admit I do find it interesting how EV ownership seems to go hand in hand with analysing costs to the nearest penny. The only EV owner I know IRL often goes into a monologue about savings down to the nearest 1p for his 6 mile commute... in a £70k+ car he paid cash for... which by his own figures depreciated by around £8 for every mile he drove it in the first year he owned it.
If my Leon had coin operated heated screen and seats I'd happily stick 50p in the slot every frosty morning
So to be able to do that from the comfort of my breakfast table it would have to suck a fair bit of juice before I don't use that feature.I think the point is that once you make it economically an obvious choice like it is in Norway, suddenly the whole market shifts to the economically obvious choice and just gets on with it. They don't continue to moan about not having 500 miles range that recharges in 5 minutes and not having a rapid charger every 34 meters. (That isn't aimed at you, but represents those stuck with the 'classic Clarkson' mindset)
In the UK an EV isn't economically an obvious choice, far from it a lot of the time, hence why every manufacturer isn't pushing as many EV's as they can into the region like they do in Norway. There are only a few models available in Norway which are not available here like the Xpeng G3 which only just launched in Norway. I think were actually the second biggest market in the EU currently.
There really isn't any reason why a Norway style incentive/disincentive set up couldn't be applied here (which I don't disagree is very heavily skewed in one direction), its all just about how much Government really wants to deal with the problem and how much money they want to throw at it. In Norway they have put their money where their mouth is where as we enjoy significantly lower taxes and still moan about paying too much tax.
You can argue that governments shouldn't be intervening to the extent they are in Norway and they should let the market have more choice like they do here. But you could also argue that the true 'cost' of ICE isn't fairly reflected in its total cost of ownership due to the damage all of the emissions do to things like peoples health in build up areas (putting aside the whole global warming thing).
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It's not really that simple, their population is just more productive, their average wage is more than double ours and their taxes are far higher which helps pay for things like subsidies on EV's (which they have had in place in one form or another for the best part of 30 years), cost of living is pretty high though.
Lets not forget the UK used to be in a similar position (while not as oil rich as Norway), except we wanted to make a quick buck and now in 2020 we have sold everything that isn't nailed down for a fraction of the value they could have added to this country over the last 40 years (that doesn't just include oil...).
They have effectively managed the counties assets for the future benefit of their citizens over the course of decades and its paying dividends now (pun intended). Rather than... this isn't speakers corner so I'll leave it there.
I thought Norway/Scandy had had a large boost with polestar deliveries .... maybe they don't care about 500miles but the heat pump in the M3 facelift should now boost it's sales, too.
regenerative breaking would help some of the ICE idiots, but my brake pads will probably see me out.
This is an ev thread , but even with ICE don't you get in the mindset of driving economically ?
regenerative breaking would help some of the ICE idiots, but my brake pads will probably see me out.
Tax /NI is lower/similar than UK unless im missing something?
But dont you think its ironic talking about leaders in EV adoption when its all funded by oil ?
Of course I do. I don't then crack out my spreadsheet every tank of fuel and work out my cost per mile to the nearest 0.1p, that was my point. It's just something I've noticed, not just on here, that it seems to be quite... obsessive. Each to their own obviously but if cost per mile is that much of a worry then an EV probably isn't the best tool for the job unless there are extenuating circumstances that make it so much cheaper than running a cheap economical ICE.
Don't forget they have a tiny population (just over 5m now) compared to the UK so it's really not comparable.
The problem is the UK can't really do a "tax incentive" when VED is absolute peanuts. In Norway we're talking potentially tens of thousands of pounds per vehicle. What is it in the UK? £500 max?