Motorsport Off Topic Thread

It's hard to judge Renault in the short term though. 2021 is too restrictive and a bit of an unknown in the midfield, with teams having to carry over chassis from last season and McLaren having to spend their tokens shoehorning a Mercedes PU into the back of a chassis designed for a Renault and Ferrari anticipated to being closer to Red Bull than the midfield.

2022 will be crucial though. Renault have been caught, if not overtaken, by Honda. It would be unacceptable (and probably untenable) for Renault, a full works team, to be slower than a team who would prefer to bring a PU in house over your power plant.
 
chrismscotland said:
Surprised to see Cyril leave completely; he was slated to take over the Alpine business unit as a whole wasn't he?

Renault this season are in a much better place than they have been for years now; probably since the Lotus-Renault season of 2013 so he's clearly helped them progress.
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Last season was their most successful since the return in 2016. Who knows what goes on behind the scenes, but if their progress wasn't good enough that points to a deep sense of impatience in the higher leadership. I guess they wanted someone new to drive them into the new regs in 2022.
 
Australia GP and China GP 2021 now postponed until November, season will start in Bahrain.
 
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UTmaniac said:
Australia GP and China GP 2021 now postponed until November, season will start in Bahrain.
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Well, that's much more fitting for the abyss that F1 has fallen into. Start the season at a featureless track in a country that's just using the race to try and cleanse their image on the world stage. Marvellous. TPTB finally get it.

The only way they could improve on it now is to hold the season finale somewhere really rubbish. The utterly ruined Silverstone perhaps?

:p

/runs from the legion of F1 fanboys with their torches and pitchforks
 
Aside from what you say I'm amazed at how ineffectual the gloves were. When you consider just how much work has gone into the rest of the safety features since the last fuel fire, such as having new thicker overalls for 2020, and how he had no burns anywhere else (including his foot, despite losing a boot getting out of the car), it's remarkable just how badly burnt his hands are.

I expect it's due to all the knobs, dials and buttons needing a light and precise touch, but if that comes before safety then they're doing it wrong.
 
this_is_gav said:
Aside from what you say I'm amazed at how ineffectual the gloves were. When you consider just how much work has gone into the rest of the safety features since the last fuel fire, such as having new thicker overalls for 2020, and how he had no burns anywhere else (including his foot, despite losing a boot getting out of the car), it's remarkable just how badly burnt his hands are.
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It's remarkable how unburnt he is, given that fireball, if you ask me.

I expect it's due to all the knobs, dials and buttons needing a light and precise touch, but if that comes before safety then they're doing it wrong.
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If you make the gloves so thick that they lose the dexterity needed to pull off straps, etc. you've got a much worse safety problem.
 
I only see burns to the back of his hands. You could add a lot of protection to the back of a glove without significant reduction to dexterity. See the padded/armoured Mechanix range as an example.
 
Mr Jack said:
If you make the gloves so thick that they lose the dexterity needed to pull off straps, etc. you've got a much worse safety problem.
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You don't have to make them that thick. I mean Berger was stuck unconscious in his car for far longer than Grosjean was yet he appeared to have lesser hand injuries. Indeed he was strapped to the back of the car completely open to the fire as the front of the car had separated.

 
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this_is_gav said:
You don't have to make them that thick. I mean Berger was stuck unconscious in his car for far longer than Grosjean was yet he appeared to have lesser hand injuries. Indeed he was strapped to the back of the car completely open to the fire as the front of the car had separated.
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Indeed. From "Life At The Limit", Prof Sid Watkins' book:

the Prof said:
The Tamburello incident in 1989 when Berger went straight off was an epic; three laps into the race the red flag came out. Mario Casoni was driving me and we were soon at the accident (twenty-seven seconds after the flag was shown). The firemen had just put the fire out, Gerhard was unconscious and still in the car. The scene was looking very threatening, for the grass around the Ferrari was soaked in fuel which was still pumping out of the car in volcanic waves. The fire marshals and I picked him up and carried him up the circuit to a safe place. I opened his visor and got an airway into his mouth. His helmet strap was very tight and we had a bit of trouble getting under it. He started to come round at this point and began to struggle. I had visions of him escaping from his rescuers and, thinking himself pursued, fleeing up the circuit like a scene from 'Monty Python', so I sat on his chest and straddled him. We had a fire marshal on each limb so he couldn’t strike back and Dr Frederico Baccarini got an IV drip up. Gradually his consciousness cleared, he recognized me and, immediately, became tractable and composed. His hands were burned so I cut his gloves off with scissors. The pattern of the burns fitted the configuration of the leather on his gloves where it had been included in the seaming without a Nomex layer! His uniform was soaked in fuel so we cut the legs, arms and torso of it open. By then we had an ambulance, so he was lifted on to a stretcher and we went off to the medical centre.

There was a huge crowd around the centre when we got there, but the ambulance and my car drove straight through the opened gate of the security fence, and we were not molested. Gerhard was in good condition now, but was pink all over from the chemical action of the fuel on his skin. The rest of his uniform was removed, and he was washed down with bottles of sterile saline to decontaminate him of the fuel. His burnt hands were not too bad and were dressed simply.
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It's stated most places that Romain was in the flames for 28 seconds in his Bahrain crash. I guess the Imola team in '89 got the fire out from Berger's crash quicker.
 
JRS said:
Indeed. From "Life At The Limit", Prof Sid Watkins' book:
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And a brilliant book it is too and I can recommend it to anyone.



JRS said:
It's stated most places that Romain was in the flames for 28 seconds in his Bahrain crash. I guess the Imola team in '89 got the fire out from Berger's crash quicker.
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Grosjean's was indeed 28 seconds and I've also just timed the duration of the fire around Berger at just 24 seconds, surprisingly. It probably seemed longer as the crash went on for some time (5-6 seconds) before the car burst into flames and the fact it was all played out live (rather than cutting to another shot) and felt as if it went on forever. That was the first season I watched F1 in full and is still etched on the mind today.

Still, in theory a worse situation for Berger (literally in the middle of the flames) and I maintain there's not much to show in the glove protection for 30 years of progress, given they were Berger's worst injuries then yet still seem to be by far the most exposed elements now (incompressibly though thankfully worse than a plastic visor). It's hardly going to be a problem or limitation to add another layer of protection for another few seconds of protection.

If ham-fistedness causes mistakes in a race or reduces the complexity of things to manage in an F1 cockpit then it's win-win in my book anyway. Frankly you could make them choose between wearing boxing gloves or have fully manual gears as far as I'm concerned.
 
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Reports this morning that the 3 street/temp track races (Monaco, Canada and Baku) will be cancelled again thus year, replaced with Istanbul, Mugello and Nürbürgring... I know which 3 I'd rather see...
 
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