Should budget makes consider better engines?

I'd say there is pretty much zero interest in a basic spec car with a more powerful engine. I took one example that sprung to mind - the entry level V6 Skoda Superb to see how many were ever sold... a whopping 14 :D

Even performance variants of cars don't hold the same cachet that they used to. There was a market for, lets say, a Polo GTi for people who just wanted the looks and image. Those people are now catered for by the R-Line with a 1.2 TSI under the bonnet. Same with AMG line, "Black edition" and all the other faux sporty models.
 
Rroff said:
A lot of people just want a cheap car that will get them from A to B, don't care about performance. usually care about MPG.
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Nail. Head.

Someone who is looking at "budget" makes because they want cheap motoring isn't going to be interested in something which does 20mpg and has the higher servicing costs of a more powerful/tuned engine.
 
There are some low powered "city cars" which are actually quite fun to drive. Though its mostly the older models. They got a bit heavy and stupid in recent years.

There are some gems like the UP GTI and Twingo RS.
 
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I take it you're looking at 2nd hand cars? Most manufacturers do create a 1.6GTI, or higher power version of the cars. However you won't see many of them for sale because not many people buy them.
 
Rroff said:
A lot of people just want a cheap car that will get them from A to B, don't care about performance. usually care about MPG. I don't think it will change much.
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I think that's generally true, but it is a case of "horses for courses" When I was younger having something that would pick it's feet up was much higher on my list of must haves. As I've aged and gathered the other baggage that life sends your way, so long as it falls in the 9-10 sec range it's absolutely fine. Plus 0-60 is all adolescent nonsense anyway, I haven't floored a car off the line in 30 years or more, though it is nice to have some mid-range pull at hand. Generally my buying priorities are now reliability, economy and cheap insurance.

To be honest with small modern efficient engines we are generally spoilt for choice. I run a little Polo 1.2Tsi but if you want that engine in something cheaper it's in Skoda, Seat which are marginally cheaper to buy. Though off the top of my head I can only think of the Polo Gti that has a 2.0 in a small chassis (i'm sure there are more just can't be bothered to google)

My first car was a 1965, mini 850. 28 bone crushing horsepower. Still got me there (mostly..:))

I was just thinking the other day what is going to happen in a few years time when we are all driving electric. Will that mean the end of vehicle tuning?
 
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Rroff said:
On a kind of related note - as much as I dislike the Qashquai and X-Trail, etc. and kind of feel like they are vehicles for people that have given up on life - at the same time I think Nissan kind of missed a trick not creating an X-Trail version with the Outlaw/Pathfinder DNA - swap some of the rounded/gawky look for more rugged lines and stick a nice V6 in there (albeit then you pretty much end up with an Audi RSQ8).

EDIT: I guess the "2022" Pathfinder is an attempt at that but it looks kind of wrong.
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They do don't they in the states everything has the rubbish V6 as a minimum and then a proper V8 in the better models.
 
Donnie Fisher said:
I actually wish the opposite. Why don't companies make low power versions of some higher end cars. For example ,why do the big 4x4's need 400-500+ bhp engines. Why not offer a small engine you can pootle around in etc
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They do?

That's why we have things like BMW X5 with tragic 2 litre diesel engines.

Most higher end on supercars these days are all show with a 4 pot under the bonnet.
 
Our cheap run around Astra, has a 1.6 200bhp petrol engine, goes "ok", so some manufacturers already do this. Not sure they still offer that variant though. :p
 
I love seeing poverty spec 116 bmw's with the worst interior possible and no kit.

Then I jump into my 125i m sport and turn on my heated (though cheap) leather seats and caress the the aluminium parts of the interior...

And just think to myself, was owning a 116 bmw really worth it over owning a nicely specced alternative brand?
 
Howard said:
@HangTime do you have any examples?
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Dacia Duster
Ssangyong Tivoli XLV

Dacia is just an example of weak engines rather than having good spec - the XLV is more in that ilk because it comes as standard with heated leather, reversing camera, Nav, Apple/Android, 720L boot, 7yr/150k warranty etc. Engine aside it looks like a lot of car for £18k brand new but 12s to 60mph probably means it will struggle on hills etc.

So at this point in time we're talking slightly bigger cars/SUVs that need bigger engines compared to small hatchbacks etc.
Basically where I've landed is you have to move up to something like Skoda Kodiaq / Seat Ateca / Peugeot 3008 to get an acceptable engine with the tradeoff obviously being they cost significantly more.

Kenai said:
OP must be looking at some seriously budget metal :p
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Yes I'm not talking about Civics and Focuses as someone else mentioned here (IMO, they are neither budget, nor lacking in engine power e.g. CTR / RS). I'm talking genuine budget marques that people will turn their noses up as per above.

Donnie Fisher said:
I actually wish the opposite. Why don't companies make low power versions of some higher end cars. For example ,why do the big 4x4's need 400-500+ bhp engines. Why not offer a small engine you can pootle around in etc
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This did come to mind when I was writing this; I don't exclusively scrape the bottom of the barrel and in the past have also looked at Jag, Audi, Volvo etc and found sometimes even the smallest engine is something like a 2.2L / 180bhp+ (can't remember off the top of my head).

Bug One said:
I take it you're looking at 2nd hand cars? Most manufacturers do create a 1.6GTI, or higher power version of the cars. However you won't see many of them for sale because not many people buy them.
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No, not just secondhand, I'm looking more at what the manufacturers sell than what is available on the second hand market.

sovietspybob said:
I think this surely hits the nail on the head most, there'll be so so many knock on effects of upping the power which all cost weight and efficiency in the bread and butter versions of the car which will be the vast majority of those sold. The engine is probably the least of the costs, that driveshaft which is fine with 120bhp might need to be 2mm thicker for 180bhp, those 270mm front brakes now need to be 300mm etc and once you start having non common parts between sub models that just adds up to not being viable i'd have thought.
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This is the sort of answer I'm looking for, I don't really have an appreciation for what the cost implications of all this adds up to.
 
SoliD said:
They do don't they in the states everything has the rubbish V6 as a minimum and then a proper V8 in the better models.
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Even in the US there is a move towards eco 1.4-1.6L engines in stuff that formerly would have V6 or V8 options albeit US V6 and V8s are too often huge capacity, low horsepower and quite unsatisfying. The Nissan Rogue is 2.5L straight 4 instead of a V6.
 
There was a potential Dacia Sandero Renaultsport leaked at one point and the bad side of me realllly liked the idea, loved my 106 Rallye years ago and it appealed, that basic no frills, but nope, didnt come here although i think there is a lower powered 2.0 petrol version in some markets

I do think there is a niche there though for a Rallye-esque but it would be hard for the manufacturer to not sell it for a small fortune

This is a different issue though. As mentioned above, engines are generally fine even at the lower end and 99% of people are happy. "Better" engine appeals to the enthusiast, but it would work imo
 
HangTime said:
This did come to mind when I was writing this; I don't exclusively scrape the bottom of the barrel and in the past have also looked at Jag, Audi, Volvo etc and found sometimes even the smallest engine is something like a 2.2L / 180bhp+ (can't remember off the top of my head).
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They need that just to get moving as they are so heavy. Small engines in big cars always feel like they are being strained.
 
MissChief said:
Isn’t that the 300HP turbocharged engine though? How strained would an NA 2.0 with 150HP feel?
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Every engine is 2.0 in that range, from D150 up to P300. My Evoque with 180bhp was perfectly fine, the D240s only really come into their stride when getting the thing breathing at higher speed.

Generally a bit OTT to suggest they are being strained... IMO of course.
 
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