EV general discussion

Gamefreak501 said:
My daily driver '99 MR2 is probably going to be taxed to hell soon so I might be going electric when that happens.

But I am not sure how well older people will adopt the electric car movement - my parents are quite elderly now and like the independence that their little Peugeot gives them but I don't know how well they would adjust from a manual combustion engine to an automatic electric motor.
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My parents (91 and 79) have just got their first electric car. They had been automatic fans for years and what really sold it to my mum was that she would put the car in the garage and plug it in. And the next day it would be all ready to go. Never again would she have to get out of the car on a cold and windy petrol station forecourt. No road fund tax, no annual servicing as such, and their annual mileage is so low that on a 5-year PCP with the 0% finance incentive in Scotland they could just afford a Model X. And when my dad (bad joints) saw the falcon-wing doors that was him sold! And they have a disabled badge so even the fact that it needs a parking bay the size of Texas isn't an issue. Because of where they live they take most of their garden waste to the tip in a little trailer and when the Tesla salesman showed my mum how it reversed itself up the drive she almost cried. Then when she found out how much that cost as an option she did cry. But they had it anyway.

One thing I would say about Tesla is they seem to understand the needs of older drivers very well. Many of the driver aids are really useful for older people.

I'm 100% certain your folks will love an electric car. Although if they're anything like my parents your dad will probably have to get over the fact that your mum won't tell him to check the oil once a week. :)
 
Simon said:
Its a fair comment. Good luck getting EV working in places like Moscow.

Do batteries even work at -40C ?
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Yes. They use them to start their ICE cars now. And in their phones and stuff. Clearly, they won't be as efficient but they are well used to the temperature extremes and specific modifications will be made to keep everything working all through the year.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Taycan is notorious for super sensitive throttle.

drop it a gear, cute... the point is an EV is both operating in an efficient region and “on cam” at the same time.
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I'm sure you're aware that the Taycan (and the new Audi e-Tron RS) does indeed drop a cog for it's most extreme acceleration modes. The front motor is a single speed drive but the rear has a two-speed gearbox that is normally in high gear but drops to low ratio when you put your foot down. It's one reason why the Taycan isn't as inefficient at high speeds as most BEVs.
 
WJA96 said:
Yes. They use them to start their ICE cars now. And in their phones and stuff. Clearly, they won't be as efficient but they are well used to the temperature extremes and specific modifications will be made to keep everything working all through the year.
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Its also worth pointing out that ICE cars don’t really work at that temp either. If you been somewhere like Scandinavia or Iceland, you’ll see all their ICE cars are plugged into block heaters to stop them freezing or they just leave them running when in the shops.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Its also worth pointing out that ICE cars don’t really work at that temp either. If you been somewhere like Scandinavia or Iceland, you’ll see all their ICE cars are plugged into block heaters to stop them freezing or they just leave them running when in the shops.
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Last time I went to Scandinavia (In the middle of winter too) I didn't see anything plugged into a block heater. It's not really true at all to say 'all' ICE cars there are plugged into block heaters. Maybe in Siberia or the far north of Norway, but not generally.
 
WJA96 said:
I'm sure you're aware that the Taycan (and the new Audi e-Tron RS) does indeed drop a cog for it's most extreme acceleration modes. The front motor is a single speed drive but the rear has a two-speed gearbox that is normally in high gear but drops to low ratio when you put your foot down. It's one reason why the Taycan isn't as inefficient at high speeds as most BEVs.
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Only in launch mode the rear is in the dedicated first gear. Still has a questionable throttle resolution mapping from what I understand (even chaps at Ferrari tell me this observation)

Tacyan real world much better than WLTP suggests, they quoted WLTP high with 21" wheels and other options, the revised number on 20" is MUCH better and hence 19" offers credible out ranging of WLTP and EPA.
Its efficient - aswell as breathtaking performance. The uber light single axle drive cars are the 'inefficient' packages if you ask me... but then they have some constraint from costs.
 
Simon said:
Its a fair comment. Good luck getting EV working in places like Moscow.

Do batteries even work at -40C ?
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I seen a video on IPACE facebook of a guy using his in -36C just fine. Prius has a real demand in Mongolia due to the fact it will start outside so for people without garages its one of the only options to start the car. Of course that is NiMh though but shows markets will find there own balance.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Only in launch mode the rear is in the dedicated first gear. Still has a questionable throttle resolution mapping from what I understand (even chaps at Ferrari tell me this observation)

Tacyan real world much better than WLTP suggests, they quoted WLTP high with 21" wheels and other options, the revised number on 20" is MUCH better and hence 19" offers credible out ranging of WLTP and EPA.
Its efficient - aswell as breathtaking performance. The uber light single axle drive cars are the 'inefficient' packages if you ask me... but then they have some constraint from costs.
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I've not driven the Taycan extensively but from recollection the manual says it always starts out in low ratio at the back, then always shifts up at 70km/h but up to 120km/h it will shift back down again to give you more acceleration. It's BRUTAL between 50mph and 80mph. Much quicker 'feel' than my old M3 Performance.
 
WJA96 said:
Yes. They use them to start their ICE cars now. And in their phones and stuff. Clearly, they won't be as efficient but they are well used to the temperature extremes and specific modifications will be made to keep everything working all through the year.
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My iPhone used to turn off if I used it for more than 5mins outside at -30c.

Dont confuse a lead battery with Li-on. Especially days of soak at -40C on battery thats not plugged in
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Its also worth pointing out that ICE cars don’t really work at that temp either. If you been somewhere like Scandinavia or Iceland, you’ll see all their ICE cars are plugged into block heaters to stop them freezing or they just leave them running when in the shops.
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No they don't, they just start them up when it's cold. I say Moscow as its a big city not some little village.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Its also worth pointing out that ICE cars don’t really work at that temp either. If you been somewhere like Scandinavia or Iceland, you’ll see all their ICE cars are plugged into block heaters to stop them freezing or they just leave them running when in the shops.
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Fair point - in Canada pretty much everyone has an electric connection for overnight 'warmth' to stop the antifreeze in the engine freezing. But you don't have that issue with an electric motor. As I say, the manufacturers will just modify everything to keep it working. Even my relatively crappy Hyundai has a battery heater and that just runs all the time to keep the batteries at their optimum temperature so in effect it has it's block heater built-in which affects the efficiency but otherwise it "just works".
 
WJA96 said:
Fair point - in Canada pretty much everyone has an electric connection for overnight 'warmth' to stop the antifreeze in the engine freezing. But you don't have that issue with an electric motor. As I say, the manufacturers will just modify everything to keep it working. Even my relatively crappy Hyundai has a battery heater and that just runs all the time to keep the batteries at their optimum temperature so in effect it has it's block heater built-in which affects the efficiency but otherwise it "just works".
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Interesting point there as the antifreeze is the same... I think its more to do with enabling engine cranking at that temperature.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Interesting point there as the antifreeze is the same... I think its more to do with enabling engine cranking at that temperature.
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Sorry - I was being extremely loose with my terminology - I think they actually just keep everything circulating at a given temperature so that your car actually does start and then it doesn't need to heat up afterwards. Most sensible folks don't leave their cars outside if they can help it anyway. That's what garages are for!
 
nam said:
New Kona debuts, not much difference https://electrek.co/2021/02/16/hyundai-reveals-redesign-to-2022-kona-electric-suv/
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whether the battery warmer/sel reference is an indication of a heat pump ?
(even though model3 cold test only lost commendable 20% range w/o heat pump), I still think manufacturers are dishonest on clearly indicating whether they have those or not.

The massive height of the bonnet, whilst, it maybe has to balance the cabin height on an suv type car, can't all be filled with equipment/footwells, and, looks a bit OTT
edit: lets have a bigger windscreen/more light
 
The Kona is built to be a Hybrid platform from the ground up, it’s ICE, hybrid, PHEV and full BEV all in the same chassis. There are a few compromises compared to a ground up EV but Hyundai and Kia make it work, extremely well, better than any other ‘traditional’ automaker and really aren’t materially behind Tesla when it comes to efficiency.

It’s actually a pretty small car, smaller than a leaf and not really any bigger than a Zoe. The drivetrain has to go somewhere.
 
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