DON'T Waste Your Money On RTX!! "video title"

[pp111]

I think people made their opinions very clear with the 20 series. They aren't interested enough in RTX ( at this stage ) to pay extra money for it. The 30 series has changed little.

 

[Woodsta888]

All very well comparing stills or screen shots, but lets be realistic about what RT does - it adds an element of realism for true reflections on or from surfaces - this enhances the immersiveness of a game.

To reach the pinnacle of game graphics - much like films can today where CGI is so good. RT is just a stepping stone towards that and works alongside all the other lighting, sound and physics interpretation to immerse the gamer further. You don't stop and look at reflections etc - it's just another advancement or interpretation of physics, the very same you see with your own eyes. I don't stop and look at my reflections in shop or car windows etc. (Well maybe I check the extent of my COVID stomach expansion in the mirror now and again.

'tis physics innit!

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

All very well comparing stills or screen shots, but lets be realistic about what RT does - it adds an element of realism for true reflections on or from surfaces - this enhances the immersiveness of a game.
!

If you wanted to be honest/realistic about what RT does; it moves the workload of producing certain elements from the artist to the GPU. That's it.

Everything else is down to time and skill of the artists.

 

[Woodsta888]

If you wanted to be honest/realistic about what RT does; it moves the workload of producing certain elements from the artist to the GPU. That's it.

Everything else is down to time and skill of the artists.

Hmmm, I'd say light reflection, absorption, refraction and florescence on and from various surfaces, is more physics than art. The artist creates the environment and everything in it and decides what the surface is. What do I know - I'm not an artist or know anything about making something I'm a heavy user of.

I think people made their opinions very clear with the 20 series. They aren't interested enough in RTX ( at this stage ) to pay extra money for it. The 30 series has changed little.

DLSS 2.0?

 

[Kashinoda]

The RTX cards were released almost 2 years ago and it's only Cyberpunk that has a noticable difference. Devs are just too good at faking it.

No doubt it's the 'future' and all that but it's still many years away.

Oh and Minecraft with shaders looks miles better than Minecraft RTX.

 

[Gerard]

Devs are just too good at faking it.

Yup, and then you have the real vs artistic debate where real light might not look as good in a scene vs the artistic interpretation of it. Suppose they could combine elements of both in those situations but I would imagine that could cause some technical issues in games.

 

[V F]

All very well comparing stills or screen shots, but lets be realistic about what RT does - it adds an element of realism for true reflections on or from surfaces - this enhances the immersiveness of a game.

To reach the pinnacle of game graphics - much like films can today where CGI is so good. RT is just a stepping stone towards that and works alongside all the other lighting, sound and physics interpretation to immerse the gamer further. You don't stop and look at reflections etc - it's just another advancement or interpretation of physics, the very same you see with your own eyes. I don't stop and look at my reflections in shop or car windows etc. (Well maybe I check the extent of my COVID stomach expansion in the mirror now and again.

'tis physics innit!

Which is funny because most gamers turn off shadows and such to see enemies quicker to kill. They don't crank up shadows/reflections to make stuff harder to see unless playing single player games.

 

[nvidiamd]

Also, if you look at most reviews and even metacritic, cyberpunk does pretty well, (outside of the bugs, which are mostly fixed now). If it weren't for the bugs upon release, it would have been a heck of a lot higher rated but sadly most people jumped on the bandwagon of "haters gonna hate" and never even played the game themselves And by all accounts, the game is pretty well polished now after the patches.... Yes CDPR lied about the game and promised things they couldn't deliver but people should know by now to never get pulled into the false promises of e3 "previews" etc. Just because they lied doesn't make it a bad game, same way division 1 wasn't a bad game because ubi lied about it in their e3 demos.....

Really if you look at the reviews and even metacritic, you will see the presstitute is giving CP much higher ratings than it deserves while giving much lower ratings than they deserve to some real great games. For example:

That's the difference between a great game and a joke of a game but with a lot of money to spend on PR.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Hmmm, I'd say light reflection, absorption, refraction and florescence on and from various surfaces, is more physics than art. The artist creates the environment and everything in it and decides what the surface is. What do I know - I'm not an artist or know anything about making something I'm a heavy user of.

Nice word salad.

I never claimed that those items you listed is an art.

Yet ironically texturing is literally the process of manipulating light absorbtion, emission and reflection on a per material basis to achieve a look that is desired.

I'll say it again RT is nothing more than tool for artist to use

 

[Rroff]

There are some effects you can't really do in a game without RT though no matter how good an artist you are. Others you might be able to fake up in a specific instance and/or in static instances but there is no practical way to do them game world wide in an arbitrary way.

I think people will be surprised when games start adding in the little things you can do with RT like light scattered off chrome surfaces in real time and not specific to an instance of an object or scene, etc. how much they notice it missing when going back to older games once they get used to it.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

There are some effects you can't really do in a game without RT though no matter how good an artist you are.

Like what?

Others you might be able to fake up in a specific instance and/or in static instances but there is no practical way to do them game world wide in an arbitrary way.
.

I agree that there is a limit to the faking approach that I should have included in my original post about moving the workload but it doesn't detract from my main point.

 

[pp111]

DLSS 2.0?

Yes but DLSS isn't RT. DLSS is good ( actually I don't know for sure since I have only seen DLSS 1.0 which was not very good.

If the upcoming Intel is as powerful as they are now suggesting, would I buy one without RT and without DLSS? Yes.
I remain undecided about RT. It is an obvious step forward but I am really not sure that gamers much care, especially having watched that video. Maybe one day it will be the thing, but I think NVIDIA are pushing it too hard at the moment, and expecting people to pay more for it is a step too far. NVIDIA just seem to be completely out of touch these days.

 

[Hedge]

I think the overall point to this is that Raytracing is good and likely the future of game development., but right now it's not really anything to lose any sleep over.

I have an Rtx 3070 and Cyberpunk and Control etc. Running with dlss and 1440p they do look nice. But they also look nice without Raytracing. Other than the fact they look nice, they dont exactly impress me from a gameplay standpoint (understatement).

I look forward to seeing where games are in a few years and the next gen of gpus to match.

1440p is the most popular monitor resolution on here and my gtx 1080 was doing a decent enough job. People shouldn't feel they need to remortgage their house to buy an Rtx gpu. (or scalped Rdna2).

Let the games dictate.

 

[Nexus18]

Nope, you fall into the minority.

The minority whose opinion counts

So where does the "it currently isn't worth the performance cost for the change in visuals and therefore isn't a selling point for the current generation of GPUs" fit into your world view because when a forum poll was done on this from memory that is where a majority of people sit

Isn't that subjective though?

I can happily play cyberpunk at 60/70+ fps more or less maxed out with some settings turned down and ray tracing on using dlss. Of course, I could turn ray tracing off and get 100+ fps but then IQ isn't as good and I'm an IQ snob.

If you own an amd card and want to play cp2077 with ray tracing on then of course, there isn't a "choice", it needs to be off unless you are happy with the 30/40 fps or whatever it is amd get.

Point is, it isn't costing anything extra to get rtx/good ray tracing as you don't have any choice to choose a new gen card without ray tracing support and with the nvidia FE, you can get their cards for MSRP (granted need to be on the ball) unlike amd gpus.....

HDR vs Ray Tracing, HDR won comfortably. I started that thread.

If that is the forum poll we're referring to, it was a pointless poll if wanting to grasp interest in just ray tracing...... as they're 2 completely different things.

I think I might have voted for HDR in that poll too, as if I had to choose between the 2 then yes HDR without a doubt.


Maybe @shankly1985 can request that same hardware unboxed poll to be added to this thread?

 

[The Old School Gamer]

I guess it's a step in the right direction towards the holy grail of completely life like photorealistic computer generated graphics that's fully interactive and immersive.

 

[shankly1985]

The minority whose opinion counts



Isn't that subjective though?

I can happily play cyberpunk at 60/70+ fps more or less maxed out with some settings turned down and ray tracing on using dlss. Of course, I could turn ray tracing off and get 100+ fps but then IQ isn't as good and I'm an IQ snob.

If you own an amd card and want to play cp2077 with ray tracing on then of course, there isn't a "choice", it needs to be off unless you are happy with the 30/40 fps or whatever it is amd get.

Point is, it isn't costing anything extra to get rtx/good ray tracing as you don't have any choice to choose a new gen card without ray tracing support and with the nvidia FE, you can get their cards for MSRP (granted need to be on the ball) unlike amd gpus.....



If that is the forum poll we're referring to, it was a pointless poll if wanting to grasp interest in just ray tracing...... as they're 2 completely different things.

I think I might have voted for HDR in that poll too, as if I had to choose between the 2 then yes HDR without a doubt.


Maybe @shankly1985 can request that same hardware unboxed poll to be added to this thread?

How would I do that? At a Don?

Edit or maybe someone start a new thread for it.

 

[Woodsta888]

Which is funny because most gamers turn off shadows and such to see enemies quicker to kill. They don't crank up shadows/reflections to make stuff harder to see unless playing single player games.

Don't see where I said anything about shooters and easier to see enemies.

In fact shadows on some games help as you can see their shadow before the player. You can in insurgency sandstorm anyway. And in that game you get 120fps @ 4k too with max settings and potato resolution enhancements OFF. And the same for properly raytraced refelctions in real time - reflections would help too. Just most first person shooters don't have RT anyway. AT distance they wont make that much of a difference.

4k resolution is what you need to spot enemies and a GPU that can handle greater drawing distances. I'm always asked how I see folk at distance - slightest movement. Maybe at low res it helps but @ 4k the resolution can pick out movement very well.

And I guess you are graphical enhancements anti-christ as you turn everything off to get an advantage - bet you turn off foliage too?

Yes I want shadows and reflections in single player games. Many fps like PUBG stopped people turning off stuff (foliage cover I remember) - particularly at distance to get an advantage as it's akin to cheating really. Just git gud.

HDR bad no uise as turn off HDR to stop folk hiding in blacks. Turn off textures so easier to see people against plain awful looking backgrounds.

In any FPS MP - map knowledge will outweigh turning off graphical options all day long.

 

[Nexus18]

How would I do that? At a Don?

Edit or maybe someone start a new thread for it.

Think if you just RTM your OP and ask don to create one should be ok.

 

[_Cereal_]

Don't see where I said anything about shooters and easier to see enemies.

In fact shadows on some games help as you can see their shadow before the player. You can in insurgency sandstorm anyway. And in that game you get 120fps @ 4k too with max settings and potato resolution enhancements OFF. And the same for properly raytraced refelctions in real time - reflections would help too. Just most first person shooters don't have RT anyway. AT distance they wont make that much of a difference.

4k resolution is what you need to spot enemies and a GPU that can handle greater drawing distances. I'm always asked how I see folk at distance - slightest movement. Maybe at low res it helps but @ 4k the resolution can pick out movement very well.

And I guess you are graphical enhancements anti-christ as you turn everything off to get an advantage - bet you turn off foliage too?

Yes I want shadows and reflections in single player games. Many fps like PUBG stopped people turning off stuff (foliage cover I remember) - particularly at distance to get an advantage as it's akin to cheating really. Just git gud.

HDR bad no uise as turn off HDR to stop folk hiding in blacks. Turn off textures so easier to see people against plain awful looking backgrounds.

In any FPS MP - map knowledge will outweigh turning off graphical options all day long.

some games genuinely give you advantage from playing at lower resolutions, most CS GO players use sillow low 4:3 resolutions and then stretch the picture making it easier to pop headshots, i am with you on the shadows, its helpful even on games like Apex and Warzone, my biggest pet peeve is most anti aliasing applications nowadays, its awful on most modern games making the game look blurry.

 

[CuriousTomCat]

Doesn`t RTX drop your framerate by about 50%? So a £1000 GPU performs like a £400 GPU?

That cost is huge. If the average gamer has 3 RTX games, then is costs £200 extra to per game to have RTX on.

Cyberpunk without RTX £49.99
Cyberpunk with RTX £249.99