4A Games update Metro Exodus, new engine, Ray Tracing GPU now required

[nvidiamd]

It's because of ray tracing in combination with hairworks i.e. it's not down to just hair works or tessellation and it's not down to just ray tracing. At least according to people on reddit.....

Haven't seen my FPS drop anywhere near that though so far and I've got everything maxed with hairworks (dlss is on quality @3440x1440), this has been the lowest it's dropped so far...

I know it is a combination of both but it should not exist. There is no reason for why every polygon in the fur should go through Ray Tracing, this is probably what slows down the game a lot.
He did not used DLSS, that is the performance on 3090 native 3440x1440. Of course you get higher FPS with DLSS but without that bug you'll probably be over 60 FPS all the time.

 

[Grim5]

Enhanced Edition on Left, Old Edition on the Right

 

[Nexus18]

I know it is a combination of both but it should not exist. There is no reason for why every polygon in the fur should go through Ray Tracing, this is probably what slows down the game a lot.
He did not used DLSS, that is the performance on 3090 native 3440x1440. Of course you get higher FPS with DLSS but without that bug you'll probably be over 60 FPS all the time.

Isn't this the first hairworks game to use ray tracing? If so, perhaps nvidia need to do some more optimisation/work on it.

 

[fs123]

I must be going mad cos some of them pics look better to me with RTX off

You are not going mad. The fact is that the non-RT version is closer to what the devs originally wanted to acheive. What the RT proponants fail to realize is that the devs place the lighting exactly how they want it for the non-RT version. With RT enabled they have less control over where the light goes so you see areas which were supposed to be dark being lit up to a point that you don't even need the flashlight anymore.

 

[HRL]

The DLSS blur side effect is a bit crap at times.

It forces me to switch DLSS off until the frame rate tanks and then I have to switch it back on.

Most obvious when aiming down sights and moving but flying birds start to leave a trail too. Wonder if it’s something they’re working on to fix as it really breaks the immersion for me.

 

[Hotwired]

You are not going mad. The fact is that the non-RT version is closer to what the devs originally wanted to acheive. What the RT proponants fail to realize is that the devs place the lighting exactly how they want it for the non-RT version. With RT enabled they have less control over where the light goes so you see areas which were supposed to be dark being lit up to a point that you don't even need the flashlight anymore.

Give it five seconds before it becomes a competitive issue in multiplayer games where darkness visibility matters.

Escape from Tarkov has people tweaking everything they can to light up intentionally dark areas.

 

[keyser]

DLSS 2.0 is a great boost. I'll look out for future benchmarks.

 

[doody]

The DLSS blur side effect is a bit crap at times.

It forces me to switch DLSS off until the frame rate tanks and then I have to switch it back on.

Most obvious when aiming down sights and moving but flying birds start to leave a trail too. Wonder if it’s something they’re working on to fix as it really breaks the immersion for me.

This will soon fix it amd's dlss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kOxGHv4Zuw

 

[Woodsta888]

You are not going mad. The fact is that the non-RT version is closer to what the devs originally wanted to achieve. What the RT proponants fail to realize is that the devs place the lighting exactly how they want it for the non-RT version. With RT enabled they have less control over where the light goes so you see areas which were supposed to be dark being lit up to a point that you don't even need the flashlight anymore.

Only because originally they didn't have the option of the light to be able to reflect off other surfaces onto others . Originally, they didn't have light reflection off surfaces ability in real time, so had to work with what they had. Originally they only had one surface to decide what the light upon it looked like. Now with RT it will calculate multiple surfaces and can calculate and draw multiple bounces of reflection along with other optical effects concerning light on surfaces. Ray tracing can even be used for sound.

Any colour grader or artist creating what a scene looks like will have to work within the bounds of what is available at the time - and new tech may change, due to multiple light sources on a surface, now making it look odd when they drop RT onto an elready old and pre graded game - so whilst RT is implemented - I doubt ion older games they'll bother totally re-grading what is there on a 2 year old game. These updates are so devs can see what to do in the next game and how it interacts and works.

It's still not well optimized in some games yet and neither in newer games like the shogdit game on release - CP2077. It's relatively new and it's here to stay and will enhance the environment more to reality for both sound and vision interaction. It isn't going to knock you flat with amazement - it's just another tool in the box to create physics simulations we see in reality along with all the other simulations of graphics in a game - calculating light and sound bouncing in real time.

Even in todays films - some CGI is done poorly (particularly the flight of aircraft), and so will RT implementation whilst new - depends how much money you spend on doing it in time and how good the game makers are and using and understanding RT and getting it right.

As someone says above - people making tarkov scenes lighter so they can see in the shadows - this will probabably be people turning HDR off but also changing things like gamma and whatever else to lighten shadows - negates what the artist decided it should look like anyway. Unless you have a fully calibrated panel to industry standard, even with OLED's, you wont be seeing what the artist decided accurately anyway.

 

[JediFragger]

If AMD's dlss version isn't as good but doesn't leave those trails then I for one will be more than happy with the compromise!

It's gotta be better than DLSS 1.0 though Shirley...

 

[Nexus18]

Just got to that fight with the big hairy monster, fps below and also set it on fire to tank fps more, didn't drop too much but this is with dlss quality....

I really ought to record videos instead tbh but too much faff......

You are not going mad. The fact is that the non-RT version is closer to what the devs originally wanted to acheive. What the RT proponants fail to realize is that the devs place the lighting exactly how they want it for the non-RT version. With RT enabled they have less control over where the light goes so you see areas which were supposed to be dark being lit up to a point that you don't even need the flashlight anymore.

Echo what woodsta said.

Sure developers could have the game look how they wanted it to and to give that contrasty/artist feel and look to certain areas but ultimately it wasn't very good or rather, it wasn't "accurate". The image grim and I posted kind of shows this i.e. you could almost say the non ray traced version looks more appealing but it is far from how lighting etc. should work i.e. look at the skull in the image, the candles aren't lighting that up as it should be at all.....

Obviously it will largely come down to the type of game i.e. I wouldn't care for ray tracing in games like borderlands.

Also, there are still plenty of areas where a flashlight etc. is needed in this game.

The DLSS blur side effect is a bit crap at times.

It forces me to switch DLSS off until the frame rate tanks and then I have to switch it back on.

Most obvious when aiming down sights and moving but flying birds start to leave a trail too. Wonder if it’s something they’re working on to fix as it really breaks the immersion for me.

Can't say I have noticed this at all in this so far tbh. I definitely noticed it in cyberpunk though, mostly with the car tail lights.

I wouldn't be surprised if it gets reduced in the future at some point....

Give it five seconds before it becomes a competitive issue in multiplayer games where darkness visibility matters.

Escape from Tarkov has people tweaking everything they can to light up intentionally dark areas.

It won't be any different or better to what people do nowadays to get the edge i.e. monitors have built in black equaliser setting which brightens dark areas or you could just use a reshade or even just raise the brightness in game (hands up, I did this for BF 1 as some maps were far too dark)

 

[Raiden85]

Don't have the ghosting with only DLSS, but with HDR and DLSS together it's horrifically bad.

Quick screenshot of it, take a look at the guns red dot and the animal flying. If you have quick moving particle effects it looks really bad.

 

[Poneros]

You are not going mad. The fact is that the non-RT version is closer to what the devs originally wanted to acheive. What the RT proponants fail to realize is that the devs place the lighting exactly how they want it for the non-RT version. With RT enabled they have less control over where the light goes so you see areas which were supposed to be dark being lit up to a point that you don't even need the flashlight anymore.

Yup. I would consider the enhanced version to be a net negative in terms of atmosphere as a result of these "enhancements". There's a reason when shooting video you have all kinds of lights, light controls and many other things, even though we have "perfect lighting". Art direction is still the king.

 

[Nexus18]

Don't have the ghosting with only DLSS, but with HDR and DLSS together it's horrifically bad.

Quick screenshot of it, take a look at the guns red dot and the animal flying. If you have quick moving particle effects it looks really bad.

That's bad!

I've just been playing this on my monitor so no hdr.

Out of interest, have you tried disabling fullscreen optimisation?

 

[HRL]

Don't have the ghosting with only DLSS, but with HDR and DLSS together it's horrifically bad.

Quick screenshot of it, take a look at the guns red dot and the animal flying. If you have quick moving particle effects it looks really bad.

Yep, exactly that. Didn’t realise it was linked to HDR so I may actually try disabling that later.

Obviously disabling DLSS gets rid of it but there are sections where my 3090 cannot cope adequately enough without DLSS sadly. Not unexpectedly of course!

On a side note I was originally playing this after my first Covid vaccination, wasn’t sure if the trails were just me off my face on the first night of playing as I was really unwell, however subsequent gaming sessions discounted that.

 

[Raiden85]

Haven't tried any fixes for it but I think they've acknowledged there currently an issue. Have seen a similar issue with CP 2077 in car tail lights at high speed but it's much more subtle than Exodus. 10 times worse in this game on every object.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Yup. I would consider the enhanced version to be a net negative in terms of atmosphere as a result of these "enhancements". There's a reason when shooting video you have all kinds of lights, light controls and many other things, even though we have "perfect lighting". Art direction is still the king.

Oh wow. That is a big difference and not in a good way.

Any pictures of what the scene behind the camera looks like?

I wonder if that is a limitation of their RT algorithm?

Is this scene during the day?

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

I know it is a combination of both but it should not exist. There is no reason for why every polygon in the fur should go through Ray Tracing, this is probably what slows down the game a lot.
He did not used DLSS, that is the performance on 3090 native 3440x1440. Of course you get higher FPS with DLSS but without that bug you'll probably be over 60 FPS all the time.

There's a reason why Disney for a period of time didn't use RT on movies with a lot of fur. Will be interesting to see how game devs get past this.

 

[LtMatt]

Yup. I would consider the enhanced version to be a net negative in terms of atmosphere as a result of these "enhancements". There's a reason when shooting video you have all kinds of lights, light controls and many other things, even though we have "perfect lighting". Art direction is still the king.

I have not been keeping up with this thread, but why does the original look better?

 

[opethdisciple]

Just got to that fight with the big hairy monster, fps below and also set it on fire to tank fps more, didn't drop too much but this is with dlss quality....

I really ought to record videos instead tbh but too much faff......



Echo what woodsta said.

Sure developers could have the game look how they wanted it to and to give that contrasty/artist feel and look to certain areas but ultimately it wasn't very good or rather, it wasn't "accurate". The image grim and I posted kind of shows this i.e. you could almost say the non ray traced version looks more appealing but it is far from how lighting etc. should work i.e. look at the skull in the image, the candles aren't lighting that up as it should be at all.....

Obviously it will largely come down to the type of game i.e. I wouldn't care for ray tracing in games like borderlands.

Also, there are still plenty of areas where a flashlight etc. is needed in this game.



Can't say I have noticed this at all in this so far tbh. I definitely noticed it in cyberpunk though, mostly with the car tail lights.

I wouldn't be surprised if it gets reduced in the future at some point....



It won't be any different or better to what people do nowadays to get the edge i.e. monitors have built in black equaliser setting which brightens dark areas or you could just use a reshade or even just raise the brightness in game (hands up, I did this for BF 1 as some maps were far too dark)

What GPU and resolution?