4A Games update Metro Exodus, new engine, Ray Tracing GPU now required

[Rroff]

I think the 5600X will last just fine and even it didn't would be an easy option in 4 years to stick a 5900X or whatever in - wouldnt mind seeing Volga frame rates at the sketch parts from someone running intel parts or 5950X/5900X

While there are 1-2 games which love lots of cores - in the main only time so far I've seen "only" 6 cores 12 threads being an issue is certain parts of Cyberpunk 2077 (and no turning up the MHz doesn't really help - at least not within current CPU capabilities). I suspect even then there are optimisations which could have been done to alleviate it given the level of optimisation of the game in general.

 

[opethdisciple]

So is this actually a thing then that the 5000 series are way better than the 3000 series in games?

For example in Valhalla my 3700x at least in the benchmark is around 40-50% and that's a CPU heavy game.

 

[Rroff]

So is this actually a thing then that the 5000 series are way better than the 3000 series in games?

For example in Valhalla my 3700x at least in the benchmark is around 40-50% and that's a CPU heavy game.

Yes and no - the average frame rate in a lot of cases isn't earth shatteringly different but the minimum frame rate can be quite a significant uplift and they've paid some attention to latency with games which can be felt as a smoother overall experience (which will be somewhat subjective but personally I find it noticeable).

 

[opethdisciple]

I just watched this video

You can see that at times the 5600x has 20-30% more cpu usage and yet the frame rate is higher. Which kind of shows that thinking of bottle necks by % usage is not really accurate.

On the flip side what this means is that once the CPU usage on the 5600x starts to get to the 80-100% stage maybe the lower CPU usage on the 3700x will start to count perhaps.

I am considering upgrading my 3700x to a 5600x now.

I can easily afford a 5800x but I doubt it'll be much benefit.

 

[opethdisciple]

Yes and no - the average frame rate in a lot of cases isn't earth shatteringly different but the minimum frame rate can be quite a significant uplift and they've paid some attention to latency with games which can be felt as a smoother overall experience (which will be somewhat subjective but personally I find it noticeable).

What CPU are you running and what did you upgrade from?

 

[oguzsoso]

I just watched this video

You can see that at times the 5600x has 20-30% more cpu usage and yet the frame rate is higher. Which kind of shows that thinking of bottle necks by % usage is not really accurate.

On the flip side what this means is that once the CPU usage on the 5600x starts to get to the 80-100% stage maybe the lower CPU usage on the 3700x will start to count perhaps.

I am considering upgrading my 3700x to a 5600x now.

I can easily afford a 5800x but I doubt it'll be much benefit.

The bigger problem is cross-CCX latency that pre-Zen 3 chips have.

And as others stated, by the time 5600x causes stutters due to %100 usage, both CPUs will be obsolete in terms of IPC performance anyways (not being able to push 60 frames stable)

 

[Rroff]

What CPU are you running and what did you upgrade from?

Personally running an older system still - 6 core 12 thread Xeon which sits between the 2000 and 3000 series Ryzen for gaming performance thanks to overclocking headroom.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

not only minimums but 1600 started to beat the 7600k even at averages

Here is how scaling goes for most modern games

We can see how 7700k run away with performance compared to 7600k.

I remember in the times of 4790k and 4670k, you would be hard pressed to find differences between them.

wise words

That was within 3 years too,and with the old Jaguar CPU based consoles. Now imagine what is going to happen once development of games shift to the new consoles over the next few years.

That is why just looking at benchmarks now is not really a good idea. Certainly for over a decade,I have always gone for more cores than what was required,and as a result I have managed to keep most of my CPUs much longer overall. Its why I don't consider the Ryzen 5 5600X at nearly £300 that great a deal. It was the same with the Core i5 10600K which could match the 8/10 core Intel CPUs in many reviews.But now the latter are pulling ahead.

Then there is the added flexibility of extra cores - things like streaming when gaming,or running another task in the background.

The Ryzen 7 5800X as part of bundle deals wasn't much more expensive,and over time will pull ahead over the next few years.

It always makes sense,to spend a little more and get a few extra cores,especially if you are spending over £400 on a GPU.

Also everyone keeps on,but you can get a Ryzen 9 to upgrade from the Ryzen 5 5600X. This is not as foolproof an idea as people think. Even the Zen 2 based Ryzen 9 CPUs haven't dropped that much in price brand new,let alone secondhand. The same will happen with the Zen3 based Ryzen 9 CPUs,because everyone on AM4 will be looking at those CPUs as an upgrade in a few years time. The price will be kept high especially if Intel don't have their own 12 and 16 core CPUs which are faster!

Its the same reason why so many Core i7 CPUs held their value secondhand for years,that it made more sense just to change the platform!

 

[Game]

went cheap this time but everything in the box is quality

so i can just swap out the mobo and cpu if I fancy a 5900

 

[opethdisciple]

That was within 3 years too,and with the old Jaguar CPU based consoles. Now imagine what is going to happen once development of games shift to the new consoles over the next few years.

That is why just looking at benchmarks now is not really a good idea. Certainly for over a decade,I have always gone for more cores than what was required,and as a result I have managed to keep most of my CPUs much longer overall. Its why I don't consider the Ryzen 5 5600X at nearly £300 that great a deal. It was the same with the Core i5 10600K which could match the 8/10 core Intel CPUs in many reviews.But now the latter are pulling ahead.

Then there is the added flexibility of extra cores - things like streaming when gaming,or running another task in the background.

The Ryzen 7 5800X as part of bundle deals wasn't much more expensive,and over time will pull ahead over the next few years.

It always makes sense,to spend a little more and get a few extra cores,especially if you are spending over £400 on a GPU.

Also everyone keeps on,but you can get a Ryzen 9 to upgrade from the Ryzen 5 5600X. This is not as foolproof an idea as people think. Even the Zen 2 based Ryzen 9 CPUs haven't dropped that much in price brand new,let alone secondhand. The same will happen with the Zen3 based Ryzen 9 CPUs,because everyone on AM4 will be looking at those CPUs as an upgrade in a few years time. The price will be kept high especially if Intel don't have their own 12 and 16 core CPUs which are faster!

Its the same reason why so many Core i7 CPUs held their value secondhand for years,that it made more sense just to change the platform!

All of what you say is true.

But it's also true that a lot of us don't keep components long. So a 5600x owner today will probably be jumping on a AM5 series chip when they release. It just seems to be the way people go on here.

But it's nice to hear a different opinion to dissuade me to do a 3700x to 5600x upgrade however.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

All of what you say is true.

But it's also true that a lot of us don't keep components long. So a 5600x owner today will probably be jumping on a AM5 series chip when they release. It just seems to be the way people go on here.

But it's nice to hear a different opinion to dissuade me to do a 3700x to 5600x upgrade however.

Well for me I do like the option of doing so as I stay on platforms for close to 5 years at a time,and I was on socket 1155 from 2011 to 2018.

I am a Ryzen 7 3700X owner too. Some games based on ancient engines I play like Fallout 4,would benefit from a Ryzen 5 5600X and I saw a few sub £250 deals if I was willing to import it. However,I also realised for certain non-gaming things I would run it would be a downgrade,and I do tend to do a bit of game recording and other stuff in the background. For example I am just mucking around with Chia,and I can run plots and still game and do other stuff fine.

 

[oguzsoso]

k

 

[opethdisciple]

Well for me I do like the option of doing so as I stay on platforms for close to 5 years at a time,and I was on socket 1155 from 2011 to 2018.

I am a Ryzen 7 3700X owner too. Some games based on ancient engines I play like Fallout 4,would benefit from a Ryzen 5 5600X and I saw a few sub £250 deals if I was willing to import it. However,I also realised for certain non-gaming things I would run it would be a downgrade,and I do tend to do a bit of game recording and other stuff in the background. For example I am just mucking around with Chia,and I can run plots and still game and do other stuff fine.

Yea the 5600x from a 3700x only makes sense from a gaming perspective. For productivity or mixed workloads the upgrade probably isn't worth it.

 

[LoadsaMoney]

Happily gaming an a 3700x here, it runs games fine.

 

[HRL]

I will keep going on with my 2700x though. I'm really tolerant to FPS drops and low %1s in general, thankfully from my past experiences with a dual core pentium cpu and fake-six core fx cpu.

Only game where I experienced noticable bad gaming experience wit the 2700xwith is cyberpunk with rt enabled+driving fast certain locations or running in certain crowded places with high crowd density. The experience is still far from how horrible the fx 6300 and dual core pentium was though. But it was still noticeable bad. I bet %90 of people here would not play a game like that. Hopefully I tolerate quite a bit. Maybe Freesync helps a bit too.

If more games turn out to be like Cyberpunk, then I may consider upgrading to a 5600x after selling my 2700x. I don't necessarily seek flawless 60 FPS, but when games start to drop frames horribly, it can be quite jarring. But i'm simply not going to shell out 300 dollars for a 6 core chip. that's a big no-no for me

Knocking down crowd density to medium definetely helps a lot, but since the crowds add a lot to the game's world, I didn't want to do that compromise and played along

My only hope is Xbox GDK. Maybe that can help out CPU optimizations in games. Otherwise, i feel like there will be games that won't render past 30 FPS with my CPU. XD once that happens 5600x will be knocked out to 45s 50s so it is hilarious both ways

Not sure if it’s more cores or a much improved IPC but when I went from a 2700X to a 5950X the change in CP2077 using the same GPU was massive.

 

[oguzsoso]

Not sure if it’s more cores or a much improved IPC but when I went from a 2700X to a 5950X the change in CP2077 using the same GPU was massive.

gpu usage drops to mid 50s and 60s, of course you would see improvements your cpu feeds the gpu better, that scene is completely single-thread bound, any IPC improvement or frequency increase will benefit greatly

as long as cpu can provide 50+ frames, i can push more graphic setitngs or resolution scaling so bottleneck is not much of an issue. but when it starts dropping below 45, then it becomes jarring

but funkier thing, i can't push graphics all the way because in the start of the video you can see that it pushes 60+ fps. so if i target higher graphics and resolution and say, 35 fps target, then i would be sacrificing the higher fps i would get from the other scenes. i would say in the majority of cyberpunk's gameplay, it managed to push 50+ frames so i was mostly okay with the performance

i guess that's why freesync is so important, you're practically getting synced at every frame target so you're not bound to vsync, 30 fps/60 fps or 72/144 fps targets.

as i don't care about surplus beyond 60 fps in these types of games so i always choose graphical fidelity (in the video, RT and crowd density is maxed, same as graphics. actually, 3070 cannot push 60 frames by itself at native 1080p with these settings. it requires dlss quality, not joking)

if you're pushing for lower settings and lower RT, then surely 5900x will see an even bigger advantage

 

[ltron]

All of what you say is true.

But it's also true that a lot of us don't keep components long. So a 5600x owner today will probably be jumping on a AM5 series chip when they release. It just seems to be the way people go on here.

But it's nice to hear a different opinion to dissuade me to do a 3700x to 5600x upgrade however.

I think Metro's weird bottleneck problem is an example of shoddy programming that can be fixed in a patch rather than something worth upgrading your CPU over. There are very select circumstances where the 5000 series is much faster, as seen in the Digital Foundry video, but 99% of the time you won't see such huge differences.

I'm personally trying to wait for Zen 4 and AM5 as I expect the IPC improvements to be large and for DDR 5 to make a big difference.

 

[ltron]

Not sure if it’s more cores or a much improved IPC but when I went from a 2700X to a 5950X the change in CP2077 using the same GPU was massive.

The upgrade from Ryzen 2000 to 5000 is huge, but I already have 97-99% GPU usage on a 3900X and RTX 3080 in that game using the psycho raytracing setting at 1440P, balanced DLSS, so I doubt I'd see much improvement.

 

[opethdisciple]

I think Metro's weird bottleneck problem is an example of shoddy programming that can be fixed in a patch rather than something worth upgrading your CPU over. There are very select circumstances where the 5000 series is much faster, as seen in the Digital Foundry video, but 99% of the time you won't see such huge differences.

I'm personally trying to wait for Zen 4 and AM5 as I expect the IPC improvements to be large and for DDR 5 to make a big difference.

Talking about DF I just watched this and the gains do seem pretty decent.

But I was pretty happy with things until this thread appeared and really should not upgrade. AM5 and DDR5 will be interesting though.

 

[oguzsoso]

Push coming from 5000 series should be adequate enough for RTX 3000/RX 6000 series

AM5 DDR5 will probably target nextgen GPU series... Waiting AM5+DDR5 on a 3080/3090 will be probably waste of time and waste of resources