Tories lost the 2019 election among working age adults

Hagar said:
Personally I have voted in every general election since 1974 excluding 1979 as I was away working in Spain, and most people I know voted at least in the general elections.
45% is a pathetic response to probably the one public duty that anybody will do this or any other year when asked.
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Isnt it Oz where you get fined for NOT voting - dont think that actually helps. I've not missed voting in ANY election (local/national) since age 18... I mean you can't whinge about results if you CBA to vote.

Having been in many meetings with Government Ministers and seen many MPs working closely, I can tell you a good 50% of them are useless self serving merchant-bankers.. and the political system that means they have to get re-elected every 4-5 years means they never take real "long view" decisions... hence lack of action on climate change, pensions, infrastructure (unless inside a 5 year window).

Arguably need a new system (maybe random selection of MPs rather than "election" - who knows??)
 
Hades said:
Champagne socialists are better then are they? It has been a long, long time since Labour actually fought for the average working person. If Labour were any better I would vote for them. But they have been utterly unelectable recently.
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Could you elaborate on that? What do they need to do to be seen to be fighting for the average working person? At the moment they are adopting a beer and flags strategy in attempt to appeal to right wing voters. Obviously it's not working (I believe they are listening to the wrong people on this).
 
Quartz said:
Yes, you should be worried by your intolerance.



And how is this different from Labour, the Lib Dems, or the SNP?
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It's very different, I've never seen such blatant lying and lack of honour from a serving government (former Conservative ones included). You are being wilfully blind to it.
 
robfosters said:
Tony Blair, Iraq and WMD.

I think that’s all that needs to said.
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That was a big lie, I grant you that, which the Tories and the press supported vociferously as well if you remember, only 2 voted against on one vote and 15 on the other as did a fifth of Labour MPs on one vote and more than a third on the other (this is a lot which shows they still had principles) and all Lib Dems (although there was one abstention on the second vote): https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/how-mp-vote-iraq-war-8355179. This is one of the main reasons I started voting for the Lib Dems when I became eligible to vote. Other than this and it's a big one, Labour were pretty honest.

Our dear leader also supported Blair in his efforts with relish, so why those who are so against the big Iraq war lie are now supporting him is beyond me: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...limate-equality-immigration-tax-a9016691.html

However, these Tories' lies, corruption and incompetence on both Brexit and the pandemic are impacting and will impact the vast majority of people living in this country far more than the Iraq war ever did and are a much greater level of duplicity (the Iraq war had a very unfortunate and great impact mainly on the people of Iraq and the Middle East as well as the military which made us all less safe).
 
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Housey said:
Your arguments are predicated on self interest, be it generational. That is hugely flawed and unfair to a far greater extent than those you believe to be hurt by the actions of the old. Maybe we create some camps to put old people in?
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I don't think I gave you the answer you needed to be laying it at the door of self interest. I'm fine whatever government we get. My interest is in making things better for those who follow.
 
Hagar said:
Harold Wilson, Labour, "The pound in your pocket...".
Jim Callaghan, ditto, "Crisis what crisis".
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Were these things exceptions or due to incompetence (honest mistakes) or were they part of a litany of lies (the government's Brexit project is based on lies for reasons of naked self interest) as with Boris Johnson's government? No one ever resigns from this government even when guilty of gross failings, I remember previous members of governments would fall on their sword for things that are now considered trifling matters.
 
ltron said:
Were these things exceptions or due to incompetence (honest mistakes) or were they part of a litany of lies (the government's Brexit project is based on lies for reasons of naked self interest) as with Boris Johnson's government? No one ever resigns from this government even when guilty of gross failings, I remember previous members of governments would fall on their sword for things that are now considered trifling matters.
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In the days preceding the Internet and 24 hour news I am sure that many politicians of all flavours got away with much more and hence did not need to fall on their swords.
 
Hagar said:
In the days preceding the Internet and 24 hour news I am sure that many politicians of all flavours got away with much more and hence did not need to fall on their swords.
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Maybe, but that's supposition. The media were a much more able and objective investigatory force back then. Now they often seem like stenographers to power who don't want to rock the boat for fear of losing their lucrative careers.
 
No matter who you vote for the government always gets in. They all lie, they all cheat, they're all self-interested. Does it matter if it's done with good intentions? No one who wants to be a politician should be allowed anywhere near the job.
 
MikeTimbers said:
No matter who you vote for the government always gets in. They all lie, they all cheat, they're all self-interested. Does it matter if it's done with good intentions? No one who wants to be a politician should be allowed anywhere near the job.
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I don't know about that, there are levels of lying. Painting them as all the same and not supporting the better ones lets them get away with it and teaches them that liars and cheats prosper.
 
Hagar said:
In the days preceding the Internet and 24 hour news I am sure that many politicians of all flavours got away with much more and hence did not need to fall on their swords.
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Nah, pre 2000s when the proper press uncovered things they stuck. TV news reported politics and reported aftermath. Resignations were expected and non resignations became news themselves. Nowadays, rolling 24 hour news drives political discourse and politicians just ride things out knowing that the news cycle will move on in 10 minutes time. There's no pressure to resign anymore other than to avoid getting too incriminated and damaging their own political careers. Doing things badly or wrong, which may even lead to 10,000s+ of unnecessary deaths is now just par for the course.
 
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MikeTimbers said:
No matter who you vote for the government always gets in. They all lie, they all cheat, they're all self-interested. Does it matter if it's done with good intentions? No one who wants to be a politician should be allowed anywhere near the job.
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Absolutely, a point often forgotten.
 
Tefal said:
Not sure about you but my experience of labour was them lying and taking us into a 20 year war in the middle East? Oh and the "all the moneys gone" note



My experience with the conservatives is, a few nice little savings boosters for new home, tax free alowance rises and generally being left alone?
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Have you been living under a rock?
 
Dolph said:
They wouldn't, I'm afraid. That's a comforting myth that implies that anyone who is not a Tory is a displaced labour supporter, and it is, and always has been, nonsense.
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If it was in the manifesto, the other parties agreed to not stand in Labour contested seats, and the people/parties actually trusted Labour would do it - it might.

But now we are into mythical realms, political parties thinking of anything other than themselves...
 
Fubsy said:
If it was in the manifesto, the other parties agreed to not stand in Labour contested seats, and the people/parties actually trusted Labour would do it - it might.

But now we are into mythical realms, political parties thinking of anything other than themselves...
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Most of the historic strongholds of the lib Dems have zero interest in labour, that's why they turned blue in 2015 when presented with a weird scenario where voting lib dem could feasibly lead to a labour government.
 
I've given up voting since even if I had voted 10,000 times, it wouldn't have change the result for our MP, so what's the point :/
 
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