Tories lost the 2019 election among working age adults

[hurfdurf]

I find it disturbing the way the thread suggests that maybe old people don't count!

The government does and should represent all of the people, not just part of them.

I think it’s more that the previous generation have a lot more power.

They grew up when times were incredibly easy, and are now responsible for the future generations being saddled with far far tougher times by pulling the ladder up now they are at the top.

They had cheap housing, better paying jobs, easy to get jobs, pensions etc etc. They’ve stolen this from the next generations and consistently vote to keep it this way.

It’s not that they don’t count, its just they’ve had their count and don’t want anyone else to have one.

 

[pp111]

I think it’s more that the previous generation have a lot more power.

They grew up when times were incredibly easy, and are now responsible for the future generations being saddled with far far tougher times by pulling the ladder up now they are at the top.

They had cheap housing, better paying jobs, easy to get jobs, pensions etc etc. They’ve stolen this from the next generations and consistently vote to keep it this way.

It’s not that they don’t count, its just they’ve had their count and don’t want anyone else to have one.

I would greatly disagree with you that times were easy. Housing was cheap, yes, but it didn't make much difference, people were broke. The country was utterly destroyed from the war. We were on the verge of bankruptcy as a nation. It took until the eighties to recover and the OAP's were responsible for that recovery. They dragged this country back up on it's feet and that was no easy task. The early eighties were when people started getting more money and house prices first started to rise. It's true that OAP's lived through the prosperous eighties, but even now times are a lot better than say in the sixties. I mean back then almost no one even owned a car. There just wasn't the money for it. Kids walked to school and so on. We are so much richer now than the people of the sixties. I am not using that as any justification for voting, it's just very wrong to say that the OAP's had it easy. They really didn't.

 

[hurfdurf]

I would greatly disagree with you that times were easy. Housing was cheap, yes, but it didn't make much difference, people were broke. The country was utterly destroyed from the war. We were on the verge of bankruptcy as a nation. It took until the eighties to recover and the OAP's were responsible for that recovery. They dragged this country back up on it's feet and that was no easy task. The early eighties were when people started getting more money and house prices first started to rise. It's true that OAP's lived through the prosperous eighties, but even now times are a lot better than say in the sixties. I mean back then almost no one even owned a car. There just wasn't the money for it. Kids walked to school and so on. We are so much richer now than the people of the sixties. I am not using that as any justification for voting, it's just very wrong to say that the OAP's had it easy. They really didn't.

Technology changing and abundance of goods has nothing to do with easy or hard.

Back then, a single wage could easily sustain a family of 4 including the owning of a home and holidays with a stay at home parent. Now it can’t. It’s that’s simple.

Said job was also very easy to get, the hours were shorter, and room for development plentiful, with a final salary or equivalent pension.

These are far far more impactful on ease of life than kids having to walk to school….

 

[cheesyboy]

Technology changing and abundance of goods has nothing to do with easy or hard.

Back then, a single wage could easily sustain a family of 4 including the owning of a home and holidays with a stay at home parent. Now it can’t. It’s that’s simple.

Said job was also very easy to get, the hours were shorter, and room for development plentiful, with a final salary or equivalent pension.

These are far far more impactful on ease of life than kids having to walk to school….

Quite right. It's much harder to live a 'normal' family life now, because costs of living 'normally' are much higher relative to income than they were in the past.

It's one of the reasons people fail to understand (or pretend not to understand) 'relative poverty'. Example: you NEED a smartphone because otherwise you are cut off from society: when no-one had phones, not having one was not a drag on living.

 

[Hagar]

Technology changing and abundance of goods has nothing to do with easy or hard.

Back then, a single wage could easily sustain a family of 4 including the owning of a home and holidays with a stay at home parent. Now it can’t. It’s that’s simple.

Said job was also very easy to get, the hours were shorter, and room for development plentiful, with a final salary or equivalent pension.

These are far far more impactful on ease of life than kids having to walk to school….

Most jobs did not have a final salary pension or any pension at all in many cases. Hours were not shorter, a five and a half day week was common, six days frequently. Working conditions were poorer, no minimum wage legislation.
Many families had no access to a car, I ran a Honda 90 to work for a couple of years. We could not afford a mortgage and also holidays. A foreign holiday was every few years after a lot of saving up.
The house we bought was a terrace with rising damp, one power socket upstairs, lead water piping and needed a lot of modernisation. Therefore it was cheap but a semi or a detached was serious money even then on my £3500 per annum salary.

The decade, 1980's. If you just read all this stuff of the Internet you are only partially informed.

 

[platinum87]

Technology changing and abundance of goods has nothing to do with easy or hard.

Back then, a single wage could easily sustain a family of 4 including the owning of a home and holidays with a stay at home parent. Now it can’t. It’s that’s simple.

Said job was also very easy to get, the hours were shorter, and room for development plentiful, with a final salary or equivalent pension.

These are far far more impactful on ease of life than kids having to walk to school….

You are dreaming.

Quite right. It's much harder to live a 'normal' family life now, because costs of living 'normally' are much higher relative to income than they were in the past.

It's one of the reasons people fail to understand (or pretend not to understand) 'relative poverty'. Example: you NEED a smartphone because otherwise you are cut off from society: when no-one had phones, not having one was not a drag on living.

Yes but a smartphone is cheap, it's £15 a month, give or take, lower end model but can do everything you need smartphone.

Thats 2 packs of cigarettes, or 3 pints.

 

[pp111]

Technology changing and abundance of goods has nothing to do with easy or hard.

Back then, a single wage could easily sustain a family of 4 including the owning of a home and holidays with a stay at home parent. Now it can’t. It’s that’s simple.

Said job was also very easy to get, the hours were shorter, and room for development plentiful, with a final salary or equivalent pension.

These are far far more impactful on ease of life than kids having to walk to school….

I didn't say it did.

Sure, families usually had one income, but that didn't mean they had more money, rather it was just seen as unacceptable for woman to work. There was still the attitude that women should be at home raising the family. Slowly that changed and women became available for work, but the standard of living went up, not down. Hours were not shorter. Jobs were not easier to find. Room for development was plentiful but no one could afford the houses. Life was simpler, but it was not easier by any means.

Most jobs did not have a final salary pension or any pension at all in many cases. Hours were not shorter, a five and a half day week was common, six days frequently. Working conditions were poorer, no minimum wage legislation.
Many families had no access to a car, I ran a Honda 90 to work for a couple of years. We could not afford a mortgage and also holidays. A foreign holiday was every few years after a lot of saving up.
The house we bought was a terrace with rising damp, one power socket upstairs, lead water piping and needed a lot of modernisation. Therefore it was cheap but a semi or a detached was serious money even then on my £3500 per annum salary.

The decade, 1980's. If you just read all this stuff of the Internet you are only partially informed.

Yes.People were poorer back then. The further back you go, the poorer they were. Like I said before, houses were cheap, but it didn't matter because no one could afford them. A fair number of people in the 70's didn't even have a car and even those that did couldn't afford to drive all over the place in them.

Sure, families usually had one income, but that didn't mean they had more money, rather it was just seen as unacceptable for woman to work. There was still the attitude that women should be at home raising the family. Slowly that changed and women became available for work, but the standard of living went up, not down.

 

[cheesyboy]

You are dreaming.


Yes but a smartphone is cheap, it's £15 a month, give or take, lower end model but can do everything you need smartphone.

Thats 2 packs of cigarettes, or 3 pints.

Difficult to get credit agreements for phone contracts when you're very poor, my friend.

Not to mention that household budgets are sometimes so tight that meals are skipped. £15/month is a lot when you don't have it.

Apparently, around 33% of children live in poverty. That compares with 22% working age adults, and 11% retirees.

Only retirees' poverty rate has dropped over the past couple of decades (started at something like 20% in about 2000)

 

[Secret_Window]

I don't see it so much as old vs young debate in terms of who is right and wrong, I see it more as the young having voter apathy and being unmotivated to vote. Their votes could make a big difference, but so many don't vote.

If younger people really dislike the current political climate so much, then they should put their words into action rather than just moaning about it. I get that the system is archaic and could be better, but if you don't even bother to vote then how do you change it? It's not going to be gifted to you on a plate by moaning about it on social media. Go and vote for the issues you care about and stop gifting the win to the older generation by constantly not voting.

 

[Greebo]

I would greatly disagree with you that times were easy. Housing was cheap, yes, but it didn't make much difference, people were broke. The country was utterly destroyed from the war. We were on the verge of bankruptcy as a nation. It took until the eighties to recover and the OAP's were responsible for that recovery. They dragged this country back up on it's feet and that was no easy task. The early eighties were when people started getting more money and house prices first started to rise. It's true that OAP's lived through the prosperous eighties, but even now times are a lot better than say in the sixties. I mean back then almost no one even owned a car. There just wasn't the money for it. Kids walked to school and so on. We are so much richer now than the people of the sixties. I am not using that as any justification for voting, it's just very wrong to say that the OAP's had it easy. They really didn't.

Its that 80s boom generation who are the new current retirees and are most likely to live until they are 100.

Sure, families usually had one income, but that didn't mean they had more money, rather it was just seen as unacceptable for woman to work. There was still the attitude that women should be at home raising the family. Slowly that changed and women became available for work, but the standard of living went up, not down.

Yes people were poorer then. Every generation has been richer than the previous generation until we get to the current generation. That has now stopped.

 

[Tuppy_Glossop]

I'm going to suggest that globalisation has played a big part in the end of increasing wealth. Multinationals employ workers on the lowest possible wages (hence wage level stagnation) and the profits disappear to shareholders and funds across the globe. I imagine retired people in the UK hold more shares than other groups, but the real issue is low wages and profits not trickling down locally. It is worth pointing out that Labour and Conservatives both support, or have supported, globalisation.

I'm not advocating protectionism.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

I would greatly disagree with you that times were easy. Housing was cheap, yes, but it didn't make much difference, people were broke. The country was utterly destroyed from the war. We were on the verge of bankruptcy as a nation. It took until the eighties to recover and the OAP's were responsible for that recovery. They dragged this country back up on it's feet and that was no easy task. The early eighties were when people started getting more money and house prices first started to rise. It's true that OAP's lived through the prosperous eighties, but even now times are a lot better than say in the sixties. I mean back then almost no one even owned a car. There just wasn't the money for it. Kids walked to school and so on. We are so much richer now than the people of the sixties. I am not using that as any justification for voting, it's just very wrong to say that the OAP's had it easy. They really didn't.

Hehe that was true for most of teh 70's as well most people did not own a car I walked to school and it was a good few years before my father got promoted we finally had a car and we were the envy of the neighbourhood people would turn heads outside the school gates to look at the affluent lot who had a car, it wasn't even ours it was a company car but just having one... wow I can still remember feeling nervous as it picked up speed you just weren't used to travelling at speed other than in a train. Mind you it wasn't a regular thing just the occasional luxury not to have to walk home.

 

[VincentHanna]

Teenagers with disposable income in the 60's wasn't a thing then?

 

[Roar87]

My Gran told me she literally used to get an Apple and an Orange for Christmas, and my Grandad on my Dads side fought in WW2 and probably suffered PTSD which was simply undiagnosed for the rest of his life, but morons on here are telling me they were well off compared to us now, mean while I'm sat working from home watching Youtube all day. What a bunch of entitled morons, try stepping back from Twitter and your Billionaire envy/hatred and take some of the many opportunities that you are fortunate enough to have in the UK in 2021.

 

[Greebo]

My Gran told me she literally used to get an Apple and an Orange for Christmas, and my Grandad on my Dads side fought in WW2 and probably suffered PTSD which was simply undiagnosed for the rest of his life, but morons on here are telling me they were well off compared to us now, mean while I'm sat working from home watching Youtube all day. What a bunch of entitled morons, try stepping back from Twitter and your Billionaire envy/hatred and take some of the many opportunities that you are fortunate enough to have in the UK in 2021.

No, people arent saying that so get off your soapbox.

 

[Reality|Bites]

True though, The most we've ever been asked to do for our country is wear a mask.

 

[Roar87]

No, people arent saying that so get off your soapbox.

They grew up when times were incredibly easy, and are now responsible for the future generations being saddled with far far tougher times by pulling the ladder up now they are at the top.

????

They grew up when times were incredibly easy

 

[Uther]

My Gran told me she literally used to get an Apple and an Orange for Christmas, and my Grandad on my Dads side fought in WW2 and probably suffered PTSD which was simply undiagnosed for the rest of his life, but morons on here are telling me they were well off compared to us now, mean while I'm sat working from home watching Youtube all day. What a bunch of entitled morons, try stepping back from Twitter and your Billionaire envy/hatred and take some of the many opportunities that you are fortunate enough to have in the UK in 2021.

Totally agree. My parents didn't even have a car until the very late '80s, and that was a knackered old Cortina. My best mates dad, who I thought must be rich because they lived in a semi went to work his whole life on a Honda 90. A holiday was a day out to the seaside, even for them. Hell even I worked five and a half days a week as standard when I left school, and still had a small black and white tv until I left home.
All their fault apparently though that young people are poor today.

 

[Greebo]

????

Big difference between that and talking about your grandparents who fought in world war 2. Vast majority of retirees weren't even born until after WW2.

You have got your knickers in a twist and taken umbrage over something never claimed.

 

[Greebo]

Totally agree. My parents didn't even have a car until the very late '80s, and that was a knackered old Cortina. My best mates dad, who I thought must be rich because they lived in a semi went to work his whole life on a Honda 90. A holiday was a day out to the seaside, even for them. Hell even I worked five and a half days a week as standard when I left school, and still had a small black and white tv until I left home.
All their fault apparently though that young people are poor today.

Again another person totally missing the point. The issue isnt that they were better off than people today, they were better off than their parents generation. That has now gone for the current generation and its break even for the generation before.

The point being made its these people and those born in the 50s and 60s who will now decide on who is government and what polices they follow as the largest majority of elderly voters in the future are over 65, certainly already over 55.

Are they going to vote for smaller pensions and reduced healthcare in order to balance the books? Or are they going to protect their own interests and vote for the current working generation to pay more and more?

Problem has always been in this country is that the state pension and healthcare is a Ponzi scheme.

Healthcare costs alone is £5600 per year on average for the over 65 household and £8400 for the over 85s.

The state pension will cost double what it does now so £200bn per year by 2050.

With people living on average 25 years in retirement, each pensioner costs around £400k. I doubt most have even paid £400k in taxes during their working life.

I am not saying for a second that old people should have the NHS or pension removed before anybody starts, I am just saying its a massive problem, one of the biggest this country faces so no point ignoring it and pretending it doesnt exist. We need to have adult discussions about this but instead we get triple locked pensions.

And the people deciding who deals with this problem will be decided on by the beneficiaries going forward.