Nvidia Deep Learning Anti Aliasing (DLAA)

Grim5 · 18 Sep 2021 at 06:51

DLAA doesnt lower the internal resolution as DLSS does but instead aims to both remove aliased edges through AI as well as clean up and present a pristine image - it sounds similiar to what Nvidia has called DLSS2x mode before which would be the reverse of DLSS as it's currently used in games

the first game to support DLAA will be ESO

https://m.twitch.tv/clip/NastyDullAmazonPartyTime-Zkr54CrJCJY13rh9

Chuk_Chuk · 18 Sep 2021 at 07:17

Now make it work on all GPUs.

smogsy · 18 Sep 2021 at 07:46

nice, only avaliable on 4000s series

gpuerrilla · 18 Sep 2021 at 08:55

Hahah. OK Chuk! Nvidia + non-proprietary...

Nexus18 · 18 Sep 2021 at 11:19

Excellent news! Tweet referencing this:

Just announced on our ESO stream are some exciting additions on the way for our coming fall content update. The first is DLSS! Another welcome lift to our now 7 year old MMO. The second is something new from NV (1/3)

We are adding a new option for NVIDIA DLAA (Deep Learning Anti-Aliasing), using their DL technology, but without the upscaling component, at full resolution for some fantastic AA quality. On RTX cards people run ESO at high fps already, so a pure AA option works well! (2/3)

Even when I can get enough FPS, I will still always use DLSS because it is by far the superior method for anti aliasing which is why games using DLSS often look better than "native res. + AA", especially when the only options we seem to get for AA nowadays is:

TAA - dog ****, blurry and awful motion issues/artefacts
MSAA - perf. hog and doesn't get rid of all jaggies
SMAA - depending on game, can be very good but often has aliasing/shimmering issues
FXAA - vaseline over the screen and doesn't actually address jaggies

Zeeflyboy · 18 Sep 2021 at 11:31

I wonder how this compares to simply running DLSS at a higher render resolution in the first place so the target is still native.

Either way I’m all for better AA!

rumple9 · 18 Sep 2021 at 22:48

https://wccftech.com/nvidia-dlaa-deep-learning-antialiasing-to-debut-in-elder-scrolls-online/

TNA · 18 Sep 2021 at 22:53

smogsy said:
nice, only avaliable on 4000s series

DanielSon · 18 Sep 2021 at 23:25

be nice if this could come to doom eternal / ID tech 7 - runs great on any card and improved image quality is always a good thing.

Psycho Sonny · 19 Sep 2021 at 10:32

Nexus18 said:
Excellent news! Tweet referencing this:

Even when I can get enough FPS, I will still always use DLSS because it is by far the superior method for anti aliasing which is why games using DLSS often look better than "native res. + AA", especially when the only options we seem to get for AA nowadays is:

TAA - dog ****, blurry and awful motion issues/artefacts
MSAA - perf. hog and doesn't get rid of all jaggies
SMAA - depending on game, can be very good but often has aliasing/shimmering issues
FXAA - vaseline over the screen and doesn't actually address jaggies

Dlss has nothing to do with anti aliasing as far as I know.

Zeeflyboy said:
I wonder how this compares to simply running DLSS at a higher render resolution in the first place so the target is still native.

Either way I’m all for better AA!

I thought dlss was running at a lower Res and being scaled higher with some magical algorithm used for scaling. What you are talking about is super sampling I've not seen that available and would hammer frame rates.

Nexus18 · 19 Sep 2021 at 10:41

Psycho Sonny said:
Dlss has nothing to do with anti aliasing as far as I know.

I thought dlss was running at a lower Res and being scaled higher with some magical algorithm used for scaling. What you are talking about is super sampling I've not seen that available and would hammer frame rates.

It isn't intended to be an AA method but the end results across every game speaks for itself:

Hence why when you enable DLSS, the AA option will get disabled/greyed out.

Psycho Sonny · 19 Sep 2021 at 10:47

Nexus18 said:
It isn't intended to be an AA method but the end results across every game speaks for itself:

Hence why when you enable DLSS, the AA option will get disabled/greyed out.

Yeah it's more like AI upsampling than AA. nvidia has a similar technology on their nvidia shield for upscaling 1080p to 4k tv's and it works extremely well on netflix not so much on twitch where small crosshairs which are thin are involved

Zeeflyboy · 19 Sep 2021 at 11:09

Psycho Sonny said:
Dlss has nothing to do with anti aliasing as far as I know.

I thought dlss was running at a lower Res and being scaled higher with some magical algorithm used for scaling. What you are talking about is super sampling I've not seen that available and would hammer frame rates.

Not really no, it’s not that much different to running natively in terms of performance (it does after all engage parts of the silicon that aren’t used in normal rasterisation - the tensor cores)… it’s just you are then using the same algorithm to hit a higher final render target which can then be downsampled to your display. It’s very similar to traditional supersampling but without the huge hit to performance vs native as you are leveraging DLSS for the additional super sampling.

It is very easy to do in VR in particular, you simply raise the render target appropriately and enable DLSS… same in any other game that has a render resolution slider.

DLSS replaces all other AA, thus why when you have no options for TAA etc in combination with it. DLSS has a level of AA inherent to it by design… by using DLSS you don’t require other AA forms, and using DLSS at native to super sample also doesn’t require additional AA, hence the wondering about how it compares in final image quality to run at 100% render res + DLSS vs 100% render res + DLAA.

edit - this pretty much sums it up… better performance or better AA with DLSS, just depends how you want to use it https://wccftech.com/nvidia-dlss-explained-nvidia-ngx/

In particular this aspect, but there’s way more details if you follow the white papers:

DLSS can deliver either much higher quality than TAA at a certain set of input samples, or much faster performance at a lower input sample count

Nexus18 · 23 Sep 2021 at 08:20

TPU first look at how DLAA compares to TAA and DLSS in elder scrolls:

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-dlaa-anti-aliasing/

Compared to TAA and DLSS, DLAA is clearly producing the best image quality, especially at lower resolutions. In most games, DLSS was already doing a better job than TAA at reconstructing small objects (like wires or tree leaves, for example); however, as our comparison images show, DLAA does an even better job at reconstructing small objects.

With NVIDIA DLAA, the option to run a high-quality anti-aliasing solution without an upscaling component is finally here, and it indeed provides better image quality than both TAA and DLSS, but at a slight cost of around 8% GPU performance.

Personally I wouldn't say it was a "huge" difference, TAA looks to be very good/very well tuned in this game though. Would be great to see it in RDR 2 and days gone.

Chuk_Chuk · 23 Sep 2021 at 08:58

Nexus18 said:
TPU first look at how DLAA compares to TAA and DLSS in elder scrolls:

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-dlaa-anti-aliasing/

Personally I wouldn't say it was a "huge" difference, TAA looks to be very good/very well tuned in this game though. Would be great to see it in RDR 2 and days gone.

As far as I know TAA gets used not because it is the best but because it is cheap and easy with "good enough" results. Any comparison to the better forms of AA?

Also 8% compared to what?

Nexus18 · 23 Sep 2021 at 17:32

Chuk_Chuk said:
As far as I know TAA gets used not because it is the best but because it is cheap and easy with "good enough" results. Any comparison to the better forms of AA?

Also 8% compared to what?

Nothing else that I know of.

Perf. drop is compared to using the TAA setting.

Grim5 · 23 Sep 2021 at 21:20

Nexus18 said:
TPU first look at how DLAA compares to TAA and DLSS in elder scrolls:

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-dlaa-anti-aliasing/

Personally I wouldn't say it was a "huge" difference, TAA looks to be very good/very well tuned in this game though. Would be great to see it in RDR 2 and days gone.

Unfortunately this game has cartoon graphics and aliasing is never really an issue in these games (I've played many mmorpgs over the year with all anti aliasing turned off) - it's hyper realistic graphics that suffer from Aliasing so we really need to test DLAA in other games to see what it can really do.

Games with hyper realism tend to suffer from aliasing and the TAA has to be turned up quite high resulting in a blurry images - this is the scenario I want to see DLAA try to tackle, can we get a clean image with no blur

Dicehunter · 24 Sep 2021 at 03:53

ESO is a strange choice to debut DLAA, I would've thought they'd go with something like Red Dead Redemption 2 or Cyberpunk or any game that isn't kind of cartoony.

Haggisman · 24 Sep 2021 at 12:16

Nexus18 said:
TPU first look at how DLAA compares to TAA and DLSS in elder scrolls:

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-dlaa-anti-aliasing/

Personally I wouldn't say it was a "huge" difference, TAA looks to be very good/very well tuned in this game though. Would be great to see it in RDR 2 and days gone.

TAA looks far better than the other options in that video (DLSS looks like a blurry mess, DLAA is better, but still loses a lot of detail compared to TAA)

TNA · 25 Sep 2021 at 08:25

Why would they pick this game to showcase it I wonder?