The Great Resignation

[malachi]

Money doesn't buy happiness and what I understand now is that more money doesn't make your life better, because you always adjust your expenses according to your income and the end result is the same - you either save or don't save, probably don't save because you know how much you have, and spend faster than what you receive...

You want to tell that to the homeless people on the streets of London, Cardiff, Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham etc?

I have seen grown men cry when they loose their jobs after 20+ years and they don't have enough money to feed their family and keep a roof over their heads. But I have never seen a person cry in their Lamborghini.

Its all good saying money doesn't buy happiness until the day YOU DON'T HAVE MONEY.

 

[Kenai]

I have seen grown men cry when they loose their jobs after 20+ years and they don't have enough money to feed their family and keep a roof over their heads.

It's OK, you can pay the mortgage with your loyalty tokens from staying loyal to your employer for all that time.

 

[Hades]

I'm looking for a change. The hours of work are making me ill as I've mentioned on here a few times. I'm finding it quite unfulfilling too and want to get back to a more hands-on role. But I need to earn enough to look after my family and I'm on a quite high salary for my role. So that's going to be tricky.

My linkedin is full of job offers, surprisingly a lot are around COBOL. I'm seriously considering going contracting as a COBOL dev when I finish my Ph.D.

Interesting. I used to be a COBOL, CICS, DB2 developer. Hmmm, very tempting to go back although I hated COBOL (PL/1 was far better back in the day).

 

[Moley]

Doctors and Nurses get trained in the UK then move to another country, they refuse to work for the NHS because of better working conditions abroad.

I saw an advert for a TV program about Australia's medical system a couple of days ago. Apparently 10% of their nurses are Brits who move there for - exactly as you said - better pay and conditions.

 

[dowie]

My linkedin is full of job offers, surprisingly a lot are around COBOL. I'm seriously considering going contracting as a COBOL dev when I finish my Ph.D.

Wat? Why tho????

COBOL was generally used by people who didn't even have an undergrad degree, big companies could get in school leavers and train them up in this verbose language used for writing business logic etc.. There isn't much particularly interesting in it from an academic pov so universities often didn't GAF about it.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Wat? Why tho????

COBOL was generally used by people who didn't even have an undergrad degree, big companies could get in school leavers and train them up in this verbose language used for writing business logic etc.. There isn't much particularly interesting in it from an academic pov so universities often didn't GAF about it.

Why? It's an easy 30k for 3 months of the year. Or did you mean why I get linked in offers for COBOL? I did COBOL dev for 6 years for the DWP so I do have experience in it (by no means an expert though, but it seems companies are really desperate for any COBOL experience as most people that really know it are either retired or dead).

DWP regularly contact me - that's who I started with out of college, well, it's predecessor ITSA (before we got privatised to EDS/Hewlett Packard. And no, I didn't have a degree. I didn't even start in programming - I started on the help desk and four years later did a gen to tech exam to train in COBOL for six weeks.

For example:-

https://www.google.com/search?q=cobol+jobs&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB920GB920&oq=cobol+jobs&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i512l9.2648j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&ibp=htl;jobs&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjigbnkh83zAhVWhVwKHTwPBRgQkd0GegQIHBAB#fpstate=tldetail&htivrt=jobs&htiq=cobol+jobs&htidocid=h1IMOgAzikbjXbAIAAAAAA==&sxsrf=AOaemvLNPTOzM8Vu1YT_g4lWnVtkq7wgUg:1634323045180

Look at all the other COBOL jobs on the left.

And yes, you are exactly right - COBOL was designed by business for business, not by computer scientists, and had no real academic underpinnings. Interestingly enough, I did teach some COBOL at Lancaster last year alongside some other non-mainstream languages (Erlang was another) just to provide some variety.

 

[Pipe & Slippers]

Another clog in the engine.

Made my day, that. Cheers

 

[dowie]

Why? It's an easy 30k for 3 months of the year. Or did you mean why I get linked in offers for COBOL?

Ah, no I just meant why would you do it - was imagining someone with a PhD deciding to pursue it as a next career... I guess if you're getting offers and it's easy money in the short term as you've already got experience of it then why not.

And yes, you are exactly right - COBOL was designed by business for business, not by computer scientists, and had no real academic underpinnings. Interestingly enough, I did teach some COBOL at Lancaster last year alongside some other non-mainstream languages (Erlang was another) just to provide some variety.

I guess it's interesting to look at briefly as in this language exists and was aimed at people who were not scientists or engineers etc... I'd assume most universities wouldn't teach an actual module dedicated to it though I guess maybe a few might on say a more vocational/applied type course given there is obs demand for it, like you say lots of the devs are retired or dead and that's a trend that is carrying on!

IIRC there are quite a few Indians being trained in it.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Ah, no I just meant why would you do it - was imagining someone with a PhD deciding to pursue it as a next career... I guess if you're getting offers and it's easy money in the short term as you've already got experience of it then why not.

Yeah, it wouldn't be a career for me - just the odd short term consulting gig for some cash.

I guess it's interesting to look at briefly as in this language exists and was aimed at people who were not scientists or engineers etc... I'd assume most universities wouldn't teach an actual module dedicated to it though I guess maybe a few might on say a more vocational/applied type course given there is obs demand for it, like you say lots of the devs are retired or dead and that's a trend that is carrying on!

IIRC there are quite a few Indians being trained in it.

Yeah, no university will teach it as a dedicated module. It is useful as a wider computer science background though. I was surprised how much history is now included on comp. sci. courses. As one of the professors stated "It's easier to know where you need to go if you already know where you've been".

 

[Hades]

The thing about COBOL is that it's often legacy apps on an MVS or Z/OS or whatever they call it nowadays mainframe. The language is easy but less easy is getting experience of the whole mainframe environment around it.

 

[HangTime]

are you going to work for the green future in the renewables sector, or are you going to support the fossil fuels coal, oil or natural gas for more money?

You can do both. I know at least one Oil and Gas company that is investing billions in renewables, it's one of their primary long term goals.

you always adjust your expenses according to your income and the end result is the same

Not always. I still live in the same house as I did when my gross earnings were about 20% of what they are now. It's true I spend more in other areas as I have kids now but there certainly isn't a linear relationship between how much I earn vs how much I spend. Holidays is another example, used to spend a much higher proportion of income on that.

it seems companies are really desperate for any COBOL experience as most people that really know it are either retired or dead

Correct, that's the main reason - it's not something people are typically learning any more, so there is a dwindling workforce with knowledge of COBOL. A friend of mine got made redundant a few years back, he had a background in COBOL but had switched to Java. He went back to COBOL and took a contract doing that for a bit (I gave him a bit of advice as he was worried about going into a 'dead end' tech - well my view is whilst the number of jobs will reduce over time, the workforce will too so there will be contracts to pick up, especially given he was relatively 'young' (mid-40s) for a COBOL dev.

 

[Rroff]

The thing about COBOL is that it's often legacy apps on an MVS or Z/OS or whatever they call it nowadays mainframe. The language is easy but less easy is getting experience of the whole mainframe environment around it.

The language is easy enough if you have a reference for all the obscure stuff - but it becomes fiendishly difficult, with just how long winded it can be, getting your head around the whole scope of a program or keeping track of what you are doing if you don't document the absolute **** out of it as you go.

 

[dlockers]

Correct, that's the main reason - it's not something people are typically learning any more, so there is a dwindling workforce with knowledge of COBOL. A friend of mine got made redundant a few years back, he had a background in COBOL but had switched to Java. He went back to COBOL and took a contract doing that for a bit (I gave him a bit of advice as he was worried about going into a 'dead end' tech - well my view is whilst the number of jobs will reduce over time, the workforce will too so there will be contracts to pick up, especially given he was relatively 'young' (mid-40s) for a COBOL dev.

As far as I'm aware, it's as dead as ICE mechanics are dead. There is a good few decades left. I can't recall the article I read but if I find it I'll reshare.

 

[HangTime]

Basically you only need it to be alive for as long as you intend to work, and if you can land lucrative contracts that might not be too far into the future.

A previous employer had an issue with a shortage of IBM RPG developers, so they decided to hire grads and put them through training whilst their old hands were still around to help mentor them!

 

[Rroff]

Gonna be awhile I think until COBOL knowledge is dead as a career - there are still a ton of companies especially in finance, services or certain types of retail whose back end is at least partially if not entirely rooted in it with all too often story that the people who [fully] understood it are long gone along with much of the original documentation and no one wanting to be the one who pulls the trigger on the cost and upheaval of a wholesale replacement system (at least 2 supermarkets in the UK had disastrous migrations to new systems trying to replace their older COBOL based ones).

 

[Calpol]

I recently joined the statistics in the "The big resignation". My job pays well and the conditions are very good but the role is not what I signed up for and was offering little fulfilment to the point where my health has suffered. At 50yo I should keep taking the money and retire early but I've decided there must be more to life than doing a job that you don't feel valued in, isnt getting the best from you and seldom fulfils. This might be slightly naïve but I'm prepared to take a chance and I don't need to earn what I earn today. Big company culture and politics is a drag and I am tired of it.

 

[Hades]

I recently joined the statistics in the "The big resignation". My job pays well and the conditions are very good but the role is not what I signed up for and was offering little fulfilment to the point where my health has suffered. At 50yo I should keep taking the money and retire early but I've decided there must be more to life than doing a job that you don't feel valued in, isnt getting the best from you and seldom fulfils. This might be slightly naïve but I'm prepared to take a chance and I don't need to earn what I earn today. Big company culture and politics is a drag and I am tired of it.

Congrats. I wich I was in a position to do the same. I'm utterly burned out and wish I would do the same.

 

[dlockers]

Congrats. I wich I was in a position to do the same. I'm utterly burned out and wish I would do the same.

Do something man....the catalyst can't be bad health.

 

[darkgen]

I recently joined the statistics in the "The big resignation". My job pays well and the conditions are very good but the role is not what I signed up for and was offering little fulfilment to the point where my health has suffered. At 50yo I should keep taking the money and retire early but I've decided there must be more to life than doing a job that you don't feel valued in, isnt getting the best from you and seldom fulfils. This might be slightly naïve but I'm prepared to take a chance and I don't need to earn what I earn today. Big company culture and politics is a drag and I am tired of it.

This is me. I forced the situation last month and effectively made myself redundant, after 25 years of service, via an ultimatum to my director and last week I was given an end-date of Jan 2022.

I'm in a privileged position with zero financial liabilities, so will be taking next year off and will contemplate part-time / consultancy work from 2023. I may never engage with corporate IT again. I had forgotten what relief felt like. Next year is going to be magnificent!

 

[Hades]

Do something man....the catalyst can't be bad health.

Yes, you're right. The problem is certain financial commitments which would affect the family if I changed them. In a few years (about 4) those will be finished and we have agreed to downsize the house and change our lives at that point.