When are you going fully electric?

Soldato
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Articles were talking about reducing the phev picg , but since Ford is now investing money in the UK for that, I guess that would be counterproductive ;
if they are using Halewood in the interim for phev combo transmissions, whilst they re-fit Europe for full electric (VW?) chassis components, not sure that is ideal,
but I'm sure Boris has it covered.
 
Caporegime
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Paywalled article by the Torygraph, no wonder I haven't read it, not read any of Scientology today either for a while. :cry:

Just for you and it has been reported elsewhere and they were talking about it on Radio 4 in the morning last week. ALl part of Rishi's plans to balance the books without increasing PAYE, VAT or NI.

Electric car grants are set to be slashed under Treasury plans, with Rishi Sunak embroiled in a Cabinet row over the Government’s green agenda just weeks before the Cop26 climate summit.

The Chancellor is currently locked in a battle with the departments for business and transport over proposed cuts to the “plug-in” grants aimed at encouraging motorists to switch from polluting cars.

With the UK set to ban the sale of new petrol and diesel cars by 2030, the Government has sought to bolster the green transition by offering grants of up to £2,500 on low-emission vehicles.

But The Telegraph has learned that the Treasury is now pushing to cut the generosity of the discount scheme as it seeks to shift focus on to electric charging infrastructure and other vehicles, such as taxis and vans.

It also forms part of wider efforts by Mr Sunak to get to grips with the public finances, which have been ravaged by the Covid-19 pandemic, in the run-up to the spending review on October 27.

According to multiple sources, the row has pitted the Chancellor against Grant Shapps, the Transport Secretary, and Kwasi Kwarteng, the Business Secretary, who both oppose the cut.

There is also mounting concern that the cut, if enacted, risks overshadowing the UK’s environmental drive just days before world leaders are due to gather in Glasgow in November for the United Nations Climate Change Conference.

On Tuesday, a senior Whitehall source told The Telegraph: “Three weeks today is meant to be the world leader summit, all eyes in Whitehall are focussed on COP26.

“The only other thing people are talking about is the fuel and gas crisis - so this just seems the most extraordinary move with this in mind.

“The net zero strategy has to be published next week and we’re still nickel-and-diming at this stage."

It is understood that the Exchequer believes the grants can be reduced without harming the electric vehicles market, which recorded its best ever month for sales in September.

Treasury ministers also want to place greater focus on electric vehicle charging points and infrastructure, as well as the support available for electric vans, taxis and motorcycles.

There is said to be particular concern that the electric van market is lagging significantly behind consumer vehicles.

However, Mr Shapps, who drives a battery-powered Tesla and is the biggest advocate of electric vehicles in Government, is said to be unconvinced.

Mr Kwarteng believes cutting the scheme will have implications on consumer demand and the transition of car manufacturers towards green vehicles.

Although plug-in models are cheaper to run, the upfront sale price is seen as a key factor in people deciding to make the switch.

There are also concerns that pressing ahead with the plans will undermine the work of Alok Sharma, the COP26 President, who is currently flying around the world in a bid to convince other countries to take bolder action on climate.

But despite widespread opposition to the Treasury’s cost-cutting, Mr Sunak and his officials are said to be digging in as they seek to rein in government spending.

“It still isn’t resolved,” said one insider with knowledge of the dispute.

Approached for comment, a Treasury spokesman said: "We have invested a huge amount already, including £12 billion through the Prime Minister's Ten Point Plan.

“And we are a global leader in green finance, issuing our first Sovereign Green Bond to help finance projects that will tackle climate change and putting in place stricter rules so people can have a better understanding of the environmental impact of their investments."
 
Soldato
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Just for you and it has been reported elsewhere and they were talking about it on Radio 4 in the morning last week. ALl part of Rishi's plans to balance the books without increasing PAYE, VAT or NI.

Well it isn't very clear what the slashing will involve, in fact it offers no specifics at all, just rumor and hearsay, as if it were leaked on purpose to garner public opinion like so many governmental polices and potential proposed changes.

£2.5k on £35k or above, they might just make it £2k on £35k cars and below, or maybe even £2.5k on £30k cars and below , or perhaps £1,750, on cars that cost less than £29,864. Speculation...
 
Soldato
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The grant has been becoming less generous with each revision, we really aren’t that far away from the tipping point where you stop incentivising EVs and start to further disincentivise ICE cars.

Instead of a £2500 grant on a cheaper EV you put on another £2500 levy on a more expensive (say £30k+) ICE car (similar to the VED) but paid upfront.
 
Soldato
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The grant has been becoming less generous with each revision, we really aren’t that far away from the tipping point where you stop incentivising EVs and start to further disincentivise ICE cars.

Instead of a £2500 grant on a cheaper EV you put on another £2500 levy on a more expensive (say £30k+) ICE car (similar to the VED) but paid upfront.

Yeah but maybe they could stagger it, so it hits all the cars starting at £1,500 up to say £7,500 for daft SUV's that are £70k+
 
Soldato
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Yup, seems perfectly sensible to me. Someone spending that sort of money can’t really use the ‘it’s too expensive’ excuse and there are plenty of EVs at those price points from all the usual manufacturers.
 
Caporegime
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Well it isn't very clear what the slashing will involve, in fact it offers no specifics at all, just rumor and hearsay, as if it were leaked on purpose to garner public opinion like so many governmental polices and potential proposed changes.

£2.5k on £35k or above, they might just make it £2k on £35k cars and below, or maybe even £2.5k on £30k cars and below , or perhaps £1,750, on cars that cost less than £29,864. Speculation...

Indeed it is speculation and it does seem to be the Govt's normal way of doing things which is to leak to the press and see how much hate there is for anything before you announce it.

The fact that most of the public dont seem to give a **** about the EV grant would suggest its a good target for Rishi to trim it.
 
Caporegime
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Yeah but maybe they could stagger it, so it hits all the cars starting at £1,500 up to say £7,500 for daft SUV's that are £70k+

There already is the penalty for ICE cars of first year tax of £2,245 and also for cars costing over £40k, they have to pay an extra £1,675 over 5 years. I can see him increasing that. A £40k+ ICE car with no hybrid tech will cost you £3,920 extra already. He can increase those rates and remove EV grants so he keeps the differential between EV and ICE cars but gains money into the Treasury.

EV's were originally excluded from paying more tax for being over £40k, perhaps that exemption will go?
 
Soldato
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EV's were originally excluded from paying more tax for being over £40k, perhaps that exemption will go?

They were actually originally included, but then they removed it which is why there was such a fuss when the Tesla M3 finally launched here, as it cost over £40k so you ended up with that £500 payment every year for 5 years.
 
Soldato
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I wouldn’t get too excited, while they are a proven manufacturer, they have never built a car before and it’s far more complex than building a laptop.

The range figures are also fancy land for the size of the battery packs quoted.
 
Soldato
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Caporegime
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Guess Rishi lost. Clearly BJ wants to show off before COP.

full details as follows:

End the sale of new petrol and diesel cars and vans from 2030; from 2035, all new cars and vans must be zero emission at the tailpipe. • Introduce a zero emission vehicle mandate setting targets for a percentage of manufacturers’ new car and van sales to be zero emission each year from 2024. • Take forward our pledge to end the sale of all new, non-zero emission road vehicles by 2040, from motorcycles to buses and HGVs, subject to consultation. • Ensure the UK’s charging infrastructure network is reliable, accessible, and meets the demands of all motorists. Later this year, we will publish an EV infrastructure strategy, setting out our vision for infrastructure rollout, and roles for the public and private sectors in achieving it. • Building on the £1.9 billion from Spending Review 2020, the Government has committed an additional £620 million to support the transition to electric vehicles. The funding will support the rollout of charging infrastructure, with a particular focus on local on-street residential charging, and targeted plug-in vehicle grants. • Build a globally competitive zero emission vehicle supply chain and ensure our automotive sector is at the forefront of the transition to net zero. • Lead by example with 25% of the government car fleet ultra low emission by December 2022 and all the government car and van fleet zero emission by 2027. • Take action to increase average road vehicle occupancy by 2030 and reduce the barriers to data sharing across the transport sector. • Maximise carbon savings from the use of low carbon fuels, including by increasing the main Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation (RTFO) target. • Increase the share of journeys taken by public transport, cycling and walking. • Support decarbonisation by investing more than £12 billion in local transport systems over the current Parliament. • Invest £2 billion in cycling and walking, building first hundreds, then thousands of miles of segregated cycle lane and more low-traffic neighbourhoods with the aim that half of all journeys in towns and cities will be cycled or walked by 2030. As announced in the Transport Decarbonisation Plan, we will create at least one zero emission transport city. 152 Net Zero Strategy: Build Back Greener • Invest £3 billion in the National Bus Strategy, creating integrated networks, more frequent services, and bus lanes to speed journeys, and support delivery of 4,000 new zero emission buses and the infrastructure needed to support them. • Electrify more railway lines as part of plans to deliver a net zero rail network by 2050, with the ambition to remove all diesel-only trains by 2040. • Plot a course to net zero for the UK domestic maritime sector, phase out the sale of new non-zero emission domestic shipping vessels and accelerate the development of zero emission technology and infrastructure in the UK. We will engage with industry to explore establishing a UK Shipping Office for Reducing Emissions (UKSHORE) to transform the UK into a global leader in the design and manufacturing of clean maritime technology. • Become a leader in zero-emission flight, kick-starting commercialisation of UK sustainable aviation fuels (SAF), and developing a UK SAF mandate, to enable the delivery of 10% SAF by 2030, and we will be supporting UK industry with a £180m funding to support the development of SAF plants.
 
Soldato
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The new round of investments will build on the £1.3bn pledged by Downing Street in November 2020 for charging infrastructure.

“We’re seeing significant growth in electric vehicles technologies, which the UK is a leading global innovator in, along with other net-zero technologies,” said Tech Nation’s chief executive Gerard Grech.

“There are 519 net zero startups and scaleups in the UK, nearly double the number in France (270) and 63 per cent more than in Germany (318).

These companies are scaling rapidly; in the first half of 2021 alone, UK tech companies tackling UN sustainable development goals have raised $1.2bn.”

The strategy also includes the pledge to use £350m to build a competitive zero emission vehicle supply chain and ensure the UK automotive industry is at the forefront of the transition. As part of the strategy, the government will require manufacturers to deliver a certain percentage of zero emission vehicles each year from 2024

isn't that an existing obligation, or, it replaces hitherto eu obligations ? or are we talking buses/hgv/plant-machinery.
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