The impending environmental disaster

Caporegime
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Where are you getting this information from? Most scientific models predict 1 meter worst case in 100 years. You're basically saying Holland will be under water in less than that.

They keep updating them anc changing them as tempos rise quicker than expected/

In 2007, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) projected a high end estimate of 60 cm (2 ft) through 2099,[6] but their 2014 report raised the high-end estimate to about 90 cm (3 ft).[7] A number of later studies have concluded that a global sea level rise of 200 to 270 cm (6.6 to 8.9 ft) this century is "physically plausible".[8][2][9] A conservative estimate of the long-term projections is that each Celsius degree of temperature rise triggers a sea level rise of approximately 2.3 meters (4.2 ft/degree Fahrenheit) over a period of two millennia (2,000 years): an example of climate inertia.[1] In February 2021, a paper published in Ocean Science suggested that past projections for global sea level rise by 2100 reported by the IPCC were likely conservative, and that sea levels will rise more than previously expected

https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/p...d_Regional_SLR_Scenarios_for_the_US_final.pdf
 
Soldato
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12,348
We definitely need to find more alternatives to using plastic though, a simple solution to begin with would be banning all plastic bottles and returning to glass and bring back the deposit scheme on the glass so it's not wasted

I don't think plastic bottles themselves are much of an issue at all, they're recycled several times (assuming they're disposed of correctly, but that's another topic). There are far worse things we use only virgin plastics for and then end up in landfill.

If there's a viable alternative then great, but i think it's a false sense of doing something green by just getting rid of plastic bottles.

As a country we're quite lucky to be shielded from extreme weathers. We don't get very hot or very cold weather. Even the extreme levels of temperature this country experiences is more than survivable. I can only hope that big polluters such as China really start to see the effects of what damaging the environment can really do - extreme weathers, bad pollution, ruined farming land etc etc. I think only then will China et al start to make major changes - i just hope by then that it's not too late.
 
Caporegime
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Biodiversity ?



I mean people dieing around the world in famine, we're about to be submerged in 15m of water, we have citizens of our country bombing us, stabbing us and raping our children and you're concerned about the level of biodiversity in the uk?

Priorities much!

And BTW to the prior poster, go anywhere in Europe and try to drink the tap water, ask why you can't even flush toilet roll in the toilets in most of them.

We are well ahead.
That's a very human-centric position.

Our priorities and responsibilities aren't solely to our own species.

If the the environment is such a low priority that you think we should have eradicated crime first before we even think about it, then you know as well as we all do it's basically a non-issue for you.

All these human-centric positions and vested self-interest will 100% ensure we turn this planet into a barren wasteland. We will do it with our eyes fully open, seeking only a more luxurious lifestyle for ourselves. My generation and all following generations have been raised to be model consumers, and now we are reaping the rewards.

Most of us think only in terms of consuming as much as possible.
 
Caporegime
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block 16, cell 12
That's a very human-centric position.

Our priorities and responsibilities aren't solely to our own species.

If the the environment is such a low priority that you think we should have eradicated crime first before we even think about it, then you know as well as we all do it's basically a non-issue for you.

All these human-centric positions and vested self-interest will 100% ensure we turn this planet into a barren wasteland. We will do it with our eyes fully open, seeking only a more luxurious lifestyle for ourselves. My generation and all following generations have been raised to be model consumers, and now we are reaping the rewards.

Most of us think only in terms of consuming as much as possible.

If its as bad as you say, it will exactly be survival of the fittest. Unless the animals evolve gills they are going extinct in certain areas anyway.

When we go into space etc I suspect we arent going to do a noah's ark 2 by 2.
 
Man of Honour
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The truth is the earth has been a lot warmer and a lot colder than it is right now.

Anyone who denies this is living in a fantasy world.

That would be relevant if you find anyone who denies it. You might find some people who are ignorant of it, but that's not the same thing.

The existence of previous variations is irrelevant to the present and future because modern human civilisation didn't exist back then and the issue is how modern human civilisation will be affected by climate.

Even the cause of climate changes is irrelevant to a large extent. How much is natural changes and how much is anthropogenic? Why care? Human civilisation has to deal with the changes regardless of what's causing them. It's like the mid-late 19th century issue of public health in urban areas in that respect. What had to be dealt with was the results - the diseases (especially cholera) and the horrendous stench. Was the cause of the problems miasma (the traditional hypothesis) or germs (the new hypothesis)? Not important. That argument wasn't what was causing cholera et alia. The problems had to be solved, whatever the cause was.


Modern human civilisation can affect the global climate. That's a fact. We're not helpless. Humanity is no longer scattered groups of a few dozen semi-nomadic stone age hunter-gatherers, totalling at most maybe a few hundred thousand people worldwide. They couldn't affect the global climate. The ice ages and warm periods came and went and the few scattered humans had to cope or die. The situation is completely different now. Modern human civilisation can't cope with significant changes in climate. Modern human civilisation can change the global climate. The situation is completely different, so the response has to be completely different.
 
Caporegime
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If its as bad as you say, it will exactly be survival of the fittest. Unless the animals evolve gills they are going extinct in certain areas anyway.

When we go into space etc I suspect we arent going to do a noah's ark 2 by 2.
I hope we don't go into space. I hope we either fix our mess here or we eat our own dogfood and perish.

Imagine a space-faring human race that thinks the entire universe just exists to be pillaged for our own pleasure.
 
Caporegime
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Who else is it for if not for us?
Even if you somehow have reached the conclusion that the entire universe exists for the benefit of human kind (quite how you have reached this conclusion I have no idea), that still doesn't give humans any moral right to disregard other species or wipe them out.

We have a moral obligation to preserve our planet and the other forms of life existing upon it. A moral obligation.
 
Caporegime
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Boston, Lincolnshire
They keep updating them anc changing them as tempos rise quicker than expected/

In 2007, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) projected a high end estimate of 60 cm (2 ft) through 2099,[6] but their 2014 report raised the high-end estimate to about 90 cm (3 ft).[7] A number of later studies have concluded that a global sea level rise of 200 to 270 cm (6.6 to 8.9 ft) this century is "physically plausible".[8][2][9] A conservative estimate of the long-term projections is that each Celsius degree of temperature rise triggers a sea level rise of approximately 2.3 meters (4.2 ft/degree Fahrenheit) over a period of two millennia (2,000 years): an example of climate inertia.[1] In February 2021, a paper published in Ocean Science suggested that past projections for global sea level rise by 2100 reported by the IPCC were likely conservative, and that sea levels will rise more than previously expected

https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/p...d_Regional_SLR_Scenarios_for_the_US_final.pdf

Exactly you are reading what you want to believe. I could link plenty that say the exact opposite. Fact is no one has a clue.

Just in your post alone "physically plausible", "likely", "high end estimate" says it all really.
 
Caporegime
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block 16, cell 12
Even if you somehow have reached the conclusion that the entire universe exists for the benefit of human kind (quite how you have reached this conclusion I have no idea), that still doesn't give humans any moral right to disregard other species or wipe them out.

We have a moral obligation to preserve our planet and the other forms of life existing upon it. A moral obligation.

I suspect it will be women and children first before random iguana from the Sahara.
 

v0n

v0n

Soldato
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The Great Lines Of Defence
I don't usually react to this whole doomsday this-time-it's-true-prophecy circles for couple of decades now. But, for once, why not...

I used to be "green". As a young man. I used to be a cyclist. I used to protest in accordance with this-time-it's-for-real doomsday prophecies of my own generation and time. And there are a few things I've learned since.

We live in much cleaner world than that of my youth. When acid rains were a real thing. And the forests across Europe were literally dying in droves. When rivers across mainland continent had a different colour every week depending on production line predominant in the local factory. When the seas surrounding this continent were full of pollution and sewage and dipping in lakes in summer was a recipe for untreatable skin disease. When every month press would report fish surfacing in local streams belly up. When tap water was not drinkable without double filtering. When food crops were being sprayed every year with pesticides so strong that seasonal workers had to work in hazmats.
I spent most of the summer holidays of my childhood in asbestos huts painted with lead paint. By the beaches so dirty and polluted that the scout masters carried epipens in first aid kits.
I remember streets full of cars with two stroke engines. I remember the times when visiting large city would make your clothes really stink of leaded petrol and a weekend out in a mining town would mean spitting phlegm with black tar for the next two days.
I remember taking iodine on sugar cubes at my school when atomic power became a real, viable threat to our lives and futures. In real life, not in some awesome Netflix series.
I protested nuclear power at the gates of plants for the rest of my youth. This is my real world testimony.

So when tou tell me it's hundred seconds to midnight, I'll be honest with you - you a-holes don't how good you have it. Cause I don't remember the world looking this great and clean in my lifetime. No need to thank my generation for it. You're welcome

And here's the moment of hard truth. From an old "greenie" to all of you - young "greens".
While the idiots across this land glue their hands to the tarmac out of sheer boredom and stupidity, three quarters of earth population only aspire to this lifestyle. And still earn less than a £150 a month. And you know what, you spoilt, 1% dumdums? They flipping deserve it. They've been making your "What do we want - not this, when do we want it - now" protest t-shirts that match the shade of your organic soya milk in your fair trade Starbucks coffee for a farthing on a sixpence for far too long.
Their time is coming. They also deserve twenty first century. Temperature controlled homes. Clean water. Heated schools and universities to study non existent "sciences" proclaiming luddite theories. They also deserve to drive to work in their own cars. Take their girlfriends out on Saturday night in tarted up whale spoiler diesel Corsa and drop off their kids to school in Discovery. Plow their fields with Lamborghini tractors. Fly with Ryan Air for a binge weekend to another Asian, African or South American country with their mates for some cheap booze and local girls. They also deserve nerdy weekends with a playstation. And sure as hell deserve to live the lives we, the 1% in Europe enjoyed for at least the last fifty years.

So, go on - unglue yourself from the surface of the road your family owns for perpetuity for a second and tell 5 billions of people "oh, it's already too late". Tell them it's too late for the remaining 77% of the world to enjoy your riches and that they all have to join your imaginary, parallel universe where everyone rides bicycles, takes a tube for their average 43.6 mile commute, travels for four days from London to Johny O'Groats in £100,000 electric cars, and sings humabaya to the hum of government grant sponsored solar powered heat pump because the arctic caps of your lofty, bored imagination are melting and the time to act, on your Apple Watch "is NOW!"
For once, in your useless life, be honest. Even just for one minute. And explain to them how they can't have even a mere shadow of what you have, because you want them to jump straight from the medieval times, basic tools, illiteracy and crapping under a tree to your unobtainable vision of a petrol-less, gas-less, bovine-fartless lala world - on their weekly wage.
Or alternatively remove yourself from M25 and go pleasure yourself collectively in the nearest bush. Why don't you. Flipping hypocrites.

I don't care if you throw me into one bag with conspiracy theorists, deniers. whathave you, I know I'm not. I just want to shake your imagination back into reality. Be green. no one wants to live in a world that's worse that before. But thread among that agenda carefully. "Green" is business.
Beware of the a-holes that tell you it's time to end current tech in the name of preserving oil and coal, just to replace it with "clean" energy and technology based on the rarest of resources.
Beware of the pseudo science from inter-this indie-that pressure circles with funding so vast that all lobby groups in the history of this planet gasp with envy.
Beware of the agendas that depend on keeping three quarters of this planet in absolute poverty to "repair" immediate, urging "problems" of the world that's cleaner and healthier than it was for decades.
And most of all beware of the a-holes that tell you the gas you're breathing out is the poison killing the world. It's the world you don't want to rescue.
And if it really is too late, then just live your last days to the full and flipping enjoy it. This planet doesn't need your help. It survived much worse. And if a mere 7 billion humans can ef it up, then it's way too delicate for our species anyway. None of the other inhabitants will shed a tear when we're gone, that's for sure. That's all I have, go away now.

End of drunken rant.
 
Last edited:
Caporegime
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Even if you somehow have reached the conclusion that the entire universe exists for the benefit of human kind (quite how you have reached this conclusion I have no idea), that still doesn't give humans any moral right to disregard other species or wipe them out.

We have a moral obligation to preserve our planet and the other forms of life existing upon it. A moral obligation.

What species?

Outside earth there isn't any we know of

And why a moral obligation to do anything? "Morals" are pretty sketchy anyway. I mean murdering your daughter because she shagged some dude out of wedlock is morally right according to many
 
Caporegime
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Posts
68,784
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Wales
I don't usually react to this whole doomsday this-time-it's-true-prophecy circles for couple of decades now. But, for once, why not...

I used to be "green". As a young man. I used to be a cyclist. I used to protest in accordance with this-time-it's-for-real doomsday prophecies of my own generation and time. And there are a few things I've learned since.

We live in much cleaner world than that of my youth. When acid rains were a real thing. And the forests across Europe were literally dying in droves. When rivers across mainland continent had a different colour every week depending on production line predominant in the local factory. When the seas surrounding this continent were full of pollution and sewage and dipping in lakes in summer was a recipe for untreatable skin disease. When every month press would report fish surfacing in local streams belly up. When tap water was not drinkable without double filtering. When food crops were being sprayed every year with pesticides so strong that seasonal workers had to work in hazmats.
I spent most of the summer holidays of my childhood in asbestos huts painted with lead paint. By the beaches so dirty and polluted that the scout masters carried epipens in first aid kits.
I remember streets full of cars with two stroke engines. I remember the times when visiting large city would make your clothes really stink of leaded petrol and a weekend out in a mining town would mean spitting phlegm with black tar for the next two days.
I remember taking iodine on sugar cubes at my school when atomic power became a real, viable threat to our lives and futures. In real life, not in some awesome Netflix series.
I protested nuclear power at the gates of plants for the rest of my youth. This is my real world testimony.


End of drunken rant.


One of the more powerful things I've read latley.

Fair do's
 
Caporegime
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23 Dec 2011
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Northern England
One of the more powerful things I've read latley.

Fair do's

Shame it neglects major things. Like the fact that the global population has more than doubled since the mid 70s. More importantly though the consumption of resources by the average individual has increased dramatically in that time too, particularly in what were then largely undeveloped and unurbanised countries.
 
Caporegime
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Wales
Shame it neglects major things. Like the fact that the global population has more than doubled since the mid 70s. More importantly though the consumption of resources by the average individual has increased dramatically in that time too, particularly in what were then largely undeveloped and unurbanised countries.

Yeah he mentions 2/3rds being below us it's now 90% or so.


Not working in Britain gives you a higher income than 90% of the population of the world but a much higher consumption.

Insulating some houses of slum Lords like the IB protesters isn't even a factor
 
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