Alder Lake-S leaks

Zarax · 27 Oct 2021 at 12:01

RavenXXX2 said:
I will be deactivating the e cores as they will be the problem. Pre-ordering the 12600k.

Taking out 20-30% of your CPU doesn't sounds like a good deal...

Grim5 · 27 Oct 2021 at 12:03

LtMatt said:
Interesting. That should just about match/surpass a tuned 5950X with PBO and curve optimizer in games, we shall see.

I suspect finally my 5950X CBR23 ST score of 1715 will be beaten by an Intel processor though. At least until Zen with 3D Cache arrives.

That will pass the 5950x easily, 5950x ain't getting 850 in cpu z either and 2k in cb r23

Grim5 · 27 Oct 2021 at 12:06

Zarax said:
Taking out 20-30% of your CPU doesn't sounds like a good deal...

it allows higher tdp allocated to P core, so you can do higher all core overclock on P core which most likely improves game performance

Zarax · 27 Oct 2021 at 12:08

Grim5 said:
it allows higher tdp allocated to P core, so you can do higher all core overclock on P core which most likely improves game performance

Guess I'll wait for review and see how it goes. Pretty much anything is an upgrade for me anyway (coming for an i7-3770k).

LtMatt · 27 Oct 2021 at 12:13

Grim5 said:
it allows higher tdp allocated to P core, so you can do higher all core overclock on P core which most likely improves game performance

That's an interesting way to try and extract more performance for gaming. Curious to see how it compares over multiple games and workloads.

timorous · 27 Oct 2021 at 12:24

Dave2150 said:
https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-1...cifications-and-pricing-leaks-ahead-of-launch

Looking promising

Hoping AMD can fight back next year with the refreshed Zen3.

I have questions.

DDR5 or DDR4. JEDEC timings or tighter. Intel MC spec speed or faster?

W11 or W10? If W11 before or after the L3 cache bug was fixed for Zen 3?

PL1/PL2/Tau settings? Intel spec or Motherboard spec?

e-cores on or off?

What I do see is that there is going to be a lot of variation between Anandtech, GN and HUB because they all test differently. Anandtech go with stock everything across the board so that means stock timings, stock MC speed, stock gear ratio, stock PL1, PL2 and tau etc. GN go with stock power settings but run affordable but tuned ram. HUB run with motherboard power settings and affordable but tuned ram as well. Then there is the obvious OS question of do reviewers use W11 across the board or do they run best OS for each platform. Do they run with e-cores on or off or both. So many variables that will probably lead to many follow-up articles / videos for the various outlets.

LtMatt · 27 Oct 2021 at 12:30

timorous said:
I have questions.

DDR5 or DDR4. JEDEC timings or tighter. Intel MC spec speed or faster?

W11 or W10? If W11 before or after the L3 cache bug was fixed for Zen 3?

PL1/PL2/Tau settings? Intel spec or Motherboard spec?

e-cores on or off?

What I do see is that there is going to be a lot of variation between Anandtech, GN and HUB because they all test differently. Anandtech go with stock everything across the board so that means stock timings, stock MC speed, stock gear ratio, stock PL1, PL2 and tau etc. GN go with stock power settings but run affordable but tuned ram. HUB run with motherboard power settings and affordable but tuned ram as well. Then there is the obvious OS question of do reviewers use W11 across the board or do they run best OS for each platform. Do they run with e-cores on or off or both. So many variables that will probably lead to many follow-up articles / videos for the various outlets.

Some fair points and questions there, could potentially be a lot of variation depending on how and what is tested.

MartinPrince · 27 Oct 2021 at 12:31

thebandit · 27 Oct 2021 at 12:35

I still don't think we'll see any changes in the AMD prices for a while, the system cost for a 12600K is going to be quite a bit higher than say 5600x as its not just the CPU you need.

RavenXXX2 · 27 Oct 2021 at 12:39

5pm is the launch? hope pre-orders go live today.

LtMatt · 27 Oct 2021 at 12:41

MartinPrince said:

That can't be right as its only 7% faster than a 5950X. Not boosting properly? Only shows 4.7Ghz in the screenshot.

I thought the score was supposed to be around 850 for Alder Lake?

MartinPrince · 27 Oct 2021 at 12:43

LtMatt said:
That can't be right as its only 7% faster than a 5950X. Not boosting properly? Only shows 4.7Ghz in the screenshot.

I thought the score was supposed to be around 850 for Alder Lake?

Did you miss that it is a 12600K?

humbug · 27 Oct 2021 at 12:45

Dave2150 said:
https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-1...cifications-and-pricing-leaks-ahead-of-launch

Looking promising

Hoping AMD can fight back next year with the refreshed Zen3.

There are some there that i get, F1 2021, FarCry 6, Hitman 3

Mount and Blade II? Random 15 year old game

There is something else to notice about this, a lot of these games are very heavy on AI calculation, Age of Empire, Hitman 3, Troy: A Total War Saga, Mount and Blade II, that's 3, (Hitman maybe not so much) that are Ashes of the benchmark clones.

LtMatt · 27 Oct 2021 at 12:47

MartinPrince said:
Did you miss that it is a 12600K?

That explains it when. Any indication as to what extra score the top SKU will offer vs this one?

humbug · 27 Oct 2021 at 12:49

Half the games on that slide seem very specific to me.

LtMatt · 27 Oct 2021 at 12:52

humbug said:
Half the games on that slide seem very specific to me.

I've no doubt the results are true, but they will be painting their CPUs in the best possible light.

So this could mean the results are taken on Windows 11, before the Ryzen OS/Chipset updates came out to restore expected performance.

Or it could have been done on Windows 10 and none of that applies. Have to wait and see what is what, but looks like the 5950X might not be the fastest gaming CPU anymore.

timorous · 27 Oct 2021 at 13:01

LtMatt said:
I've no doubt the results are true, but they will be painting their CPUs in the best possible light.

So this could mean the results are taken on Windows 11, before the Ryzen OS/Chipset updates came out to restore expected performance.

Or it could have been done on Windows 10 and none of that applies. Have to wait and see what is what, but looks like the 5950X might not be the fastest gaming CPU anymore.

I expect it will depend. CS:GO, Valorant and other competitive games are noted by their absence from the slide so perhaps in the arena where high refresh 1080p gaming is really important Zen 3 is still ahead and I expect at 4k it makes not much difference unless you intend to keep your CPU, RAM, Mobo through several GPU upgrades.

humbug · 27 Oct 2021 at 13:06

LtMatt said:
I've no doubt the results are true, but they will be painting their CPUs in the best possible light.

So this could mean the results are taken on Windows 11, before the Ryzen OS/Chipset updates came out to restore expected performance.

Or it could have been done on Windows 10 and none of that applies. Have to wait and see what is what, but looks like the 5950X might not be the fastest gaming CPU anymore.

Yeah they are true, have a look at Age of Empire, Troy: A Total War Saga and Mount and Blade II they are all the same sort of game with huge AI simulation, its all multi threaded Integer math, its more like Microsoft Excel than a game, the slide seems oddly padded out with games like that, even Hitman 3 is to some extent like that.

What's left after that, Farcry 6, yeah ok tho we know Ryzen doesn't play well, again, specifically with Duna Engine.

Grid 2019, yeah sure, a bit specific again tho isn't it?

F1 2021, yeah ok.

That's it....

And yes there are questions at to the Windows 11 situation, if this is pre Ryzen fix?

I'll have a quick scout around for some of these benchmarks to see how they actually compare between Rocket Lake and Zen 3, i'm probably not going to find anything useful if at all as reviewers seem oddly reluctant to include CPU benchmarks when testing games these days or if they do its all on GPU limits.

humbug · 27 Oct 2021 at 13:26

timorous said:
I expect it will depend. CS:GO, Valorant and other competitive games are noted by their absence from the slide so perhaps in the arena where high refresh 1080p gaming is really important Zen 3 is still ahead and I expect at 4k it makes not much difference unless you intend to keep your CPU, RAM, Mobo through several GPU upgrades.

If it had CS:GO and Rocket League +15% on those slides i would be impressed, its difficult to get games like that on the GPU limit, its where the CPU can fully stretch its legs and that's where Zen 3 blows Intel out of the water by some 20 to 30%, Intel would have to gain about 50% performance to convincingly beat Zen 3, the same is true for most games when you set the resolution low again to take the GPU out of the equation, most of what you're looking at from reviews involves the GPU limits, you're seeing (Zen 3 +10%) "so Intel only need +15% to beat it.... no!" +15% where the GPU is 70% the bottleneck is not +15% its +4%.

Joxeon · 27 Oct 2021 at 13:29

humbug said:
If it had CS:GO and Rocket League +15% on those slides i would be impressed, its difficult to get games like that on the GPU limit, its where the CPU can fully stretch its legs and that's where Zen 3 blows Intel out of the water by some 20 to 30%, Intel would have to gain about 50% performance to convincingly beat Zen 3, the same is true for most games when you set the resolution low again to take the GPU out of the equation, most of what you're looking at from reviews involves the GPU limits, so you're seeing (Zen 3 +10%) so Intel only need +15% to beat it.... no! +15% where the GPU is 70% the bottleneck is not +15% its +4%.

I'd rather see how they do in modern games though not ones from 6+ years ago that already run at many 100s of fps even on a potato system.