Poll: Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021, Yas Island - Race 22

[SDK^]

Lewis had almost won. He was well ahead with a few laps to go and could not lose unless he was artificially placed into a disadvantageous position.

Lewis lost because, unfortunately with the miracle of events that happened, being in first place was a disadvantage.
I'm a Hamilton fan - and it hurts, but sometimes these one off miracle consequences occur in sport.

Yesterday my son's footy team dominated the whole game, but lost because the Ref called a controversial Penalty in the final seconds.

That's sport - grassroots to the top level.

 

[ZeeWrath]

Merc will probabaly drop the appeals when the media start calling them bad losers

 

[Greboth]

Unfortunately, rule 15.3 gives the RD power of the use of the SC, which in this case determined the championship

By the FIA’s argument yes because in shock news the FIA investigated the FIA and found the FIA did nothing wrong.

I really don’t think it would be too hard to argue that 15.3 gives the RD overriding authority over the Clerk decision on using the safety car or not. Not the RD has carte blanche decision over how the safety is used.

That interpretation would also fit with the last 20+ years of SC use too.

Could be but that in the court (to me) would be the equivalent to handing someone a punishment before they have committed the crime just because the events leading upto that point seem to indicate they could be about to commit it. They would have to look at the event as a whole and not just lap by lap (I am guessing as not sure what goes into such court appeals).

But FIA need to clean up house and set it in order, F1 can't continue like this over the new regulations period.

And I am not Max fan but as a driver he has nothing to do with it (the things that were done were outside his control), he took the title by doing his job. The stewards allowed weaving, running opponents off the road, leaving no space. But thats on them not doing their jobs.

It’s not a punishment before the crime really. Had Masi followed the rules as done in every other safety car race. The SC would have come in at the end of the next lap. The next lap would have been the last lap, it would have been another lap under the SC so we know how they should have finished.

 

[jonneymendoza]

I dont think he would be stripped though. If it goes to court, the outcome could be to nullify the race result which could still give him the title win. There was still one lap to go and for all we know Lewis could have had a puncture and retired. So the court or any sporting body cant decide on the outcome of the race and hence the title. The appeal could hardly achieve anything. A strict adherence to rules would be a welcome outcome though.

No but what i was saying is that FIA should get punished severely. Not that max gets stripped off the title

 

[Scam]

No, once they cross the line they're racing - the shenanigans before that with people trying to get the jump on each other is just to try and be as far ahead / close behind as possible when you get there - the lead car isn't choosing the race restart entirely.

Gotcha. Forgot about that bit.

That's a worrying precedent for me. The horse-trading between Team Principles and Masi has been a low point for me this year, regardless of the team who is doing it.

Yep and this is exactly the reason I think Merc should take it all the way. The FIA have already dragged the season through the mud with their inconsistencies (one thing I agree with Karen Horner on) so if Merc hang this out and embarrass everyone - well it's all they deserve. Hopefully it'll be a wake-up call for them.

The standard thing would be to nullify the last lap (the one the Safety Car should have been doing before withdrawing), or back to the lap before the Safety Car came out and then was mishandled by Masi.

Any previous evidence of this actually happening?

 

[Kautya]

No but what i was saying is that FIA should get punished severely. Not that max gets stripped off the title

Agreed and Merc need to make sure they communicate to media that that is what they are appealing. If their goal is to strip Max of the title then I am afraid they are about to beat RB to the most hated team based on this appeal alone.

 

[ZeeWrath]

No but what i was saying is that FIA should get punished severely. Not that max gets stripped off the title

Brundle made the point on sky when the appeals first came in that even if they win what's the remedy?

Red bull have done nothing wrong. Merc have spent a lot of money racing and deprevied of a fair shot but they already won the constructors so have the biggest prize money

 

[Kenai]

Yep !
That is his role and what he's paid to do. [Obviously he makes decisions based on advice of the stewards and the data]

Yeah, i'm not sure that's really the point of those rules, like I say, I think a good lawyer tears that logic apart.

 

[Mr Jack]

I don't think that will be too much of an issue: https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-bull-mercedes-engine-poaching/

If I have understood correctly most of the poached staff won't be available for next year. They usually have lengthy non-compete clauses in their contracts.

 

[adam cool dude]

Lewis lost because, unfortunately with the miracle of events that happened, being in first place was a disadvantage.
I'm a Hamilton fan - and it hurts, but sometimes these one off miracle consequences occur in sport.

Yesterday my son's footy team dominated the whole game, but lost because the Ref called a controversial Penalty in the final seconds.

That's sport - grassroots to the top level.

A controversial penalty is not the same as changing the rules to suit the opponent. If the ref had called the penalty then told the keeper to stand at the side of the goal and try and save it would be the equivalent of what happened yesterday. I do not think anyone bemoans the safety car coming out. It had to be done but the procedure was changed to fix the result of a GP.

 

[Sinbad2000]

Unfortunately, rule 15.3 gives the RD power of the use of the SC, which in this case determined the championship

This is not strictly true.

There are MANY things that happened throughout the season which, if handled differently, would have rendered this race's result moot.
For example, what if the penalty LH received for punting Max into the barriers reflected the actual impact that the accident he caused had on Max's results...? Both drivers have been the beneficiaries of questionable decisions throughout the season, it's not just this one incident.

 

[Brazo]

Lewis lost because, unfortunately with the miracle of events that happened, being in first place was a disadvantage.
I'm a Hamilton fan - and it hurts, but sometimes these one off miracle consequences occur in sport.

Yesterday my son's footy team dominated the whole game, but lost because the Ref called a controversial Penalty in the final seconds.

That's sport - grassroots to the top level.

Did the ref go against firmly entrenched written rules ?

 

[AndyCr15]

I saw the race late last night, but obviously keen to read everyone's thoughts this morning.

They really should have red flagged the race. Anyone who’s watched F1 will know that it takes ages to remove a car and let back markers through.

Agreed. If you must 'let them race', let them do it on a relatively level playing field.

I wanted Max and RB to win; it’s been such a great season after so many dull ones, but this really ruined it; I feel for Lewis.

Agreed. I feel a little like I've been robbed of something great. Whilst I was pulling for Lewis, I'm not a huge Lewis fan. I think I have massive respect for Max's ability, just look at those laps in the last two races Q3. Sooo fast. To me Lewis was the faster car and as even Max said, he got lucky and that was the difference yesterday, which is a massive shame after the battle all year.

He left the door the wide open, and Max took the line.

He did, but don't forget the door is not on the line for the fastest way through a corner. The door is very off the line. The door is the fastest way to the apex, but then very slow out of the apex and down the track. I personally don't believe there's much skill in diving to the apex and slamming the breaks on, claiming to now have the lead any those on the faster line need to just get out of the way.

I’m surprised Lewis left the door open on that final lap. Giving max the opportunity to go down the inside was crazy, at least if he’d covered the inside he could have tried to force him wide in defence. I guess he knew the the writing was on the wall.

Lewis has done this a few times this year. Even earlier in the race with Perez, the first pass he then left the door open and Perez did a great job of taking it back. The second time, Lewis closed the door and kept a fast enough line to defend his lead.

(Right, 100+ more posts still to read )

 

[SDK^]

Did the ref go against firmly entrenched written rules ?

Did the F1 RD go against the firmly entrenched written rules?
When there is a rule which gives him power over the use of the SC.

I’m surprised Lewis left the door open on that final lap. Giving max the opportunity to go down the inside was crazy, at least if he’d covered the inside he could have tried to force him wide in defence. I guess he knew the the writing was on the wall.

Yes - This was a critical lapse for Hamilton.
I've listened to the Mercedes and Hamilton pit radio from the start of the SC car to the restart and they never mention, driving to cover how aggressive Max would be on the restart. It was obvious he was going to lunge at any opportunity.
They were in shock (quite rightly) over the events unfolding. But that was a weakness that gave the advantage to RB and Max.

Hamilton needs to cover Max more aggressively into slow comer overtakes, even if it means they will crash. Max has to learn he can't just send a wild move up the inside.

 

[Jono8]

It'll be interesting to see how far merc go with this, I think they'll quietly drop it.

Lewis lost it because latifi crashed and Bottas was hopeless if Bottas had been where he should have been Max wouldn't have stood a chance.
If Lewis carries on next year could be a wake up call for RB

Apart from Masi making the rules up.

Lewis lost it because Merc made a strategy call based on the actual rules of the sport. One that was correct until Masi just made up a new and incredibly biased rule that effectively handed Max the raceand title.

 

[Greboth]

Something that just occured to me, if the FIA defence is sticking to article 15.3 that the race director has complete control over the safety car. Surely this means it opens the door for a team or teams to appeal how it was used every single time it is used from now on.

 

[Jono8]

Unfortunately, rule 15.3 gives the RD power of the use of the SC, which in this case determined the championship

Nope. No way that stands up in court. That clause clearly doesn't mean he can just throw the rule book out and do whatever he wants.

 

[Greboth]

Did the F1 RD go against the firmly entrenched written rules?
When there is a rule which gives him power over the use of the SC.

When the rule may not ever give him the power over the use of the SC and even if it does goes against the last 27 years use of the safety car.

You and the FIA can hide behind 15.3 all you like but it doesn’t make it any less of a BS decision.

 

[Jono8]

This thread is a joy to read first thing this morning.

At this point it’s hard to tell if people are actually genuinely annoyed at MM or more so Lewis didn’t win the WDC.

We’ve seen the lack of inconsistency from FIA favour so many different drivers in the past, including LH, but the amount of uproar here this time I don’t think I recall ever seeing before.

1000% if the roles were reversed yesterday this thread would be full of Karen related troll comments. Why were none of you this vocal in the past when FIA showed how inconsistent they are?

But I guess this being a UK forum with a natural bias to be expected we shouldn’t really expect anything else.

So how many of you are boycotting F1?

There is a big difference with this one. It isnt a subjective or discretionary ruling on a track incident. Those will always be up for debate, and any court case against those would be doomed to failure.

This one is different. It was a brazen rule change made up at the last minute that was obviously and objectively biased to hand Max the race and the title.

 

[SDK^]

Nope. No way that stands up in court. That clause clearly doesn't mean he can just throw the rule book out and do whatever he wants.

I'm sure the FIA and the RD have a whole load of evidence to back up the SC decisions yesterday. It won't just be based on his one call. e.g. What made the RD change his mind from no lapped cars overtaking the SC, to yes they could.

They have already said that all the teams have previously agreed that where possible, it was highly desirable to have the race finish under racing conditions than behind the SC.