Poll: Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021, Yas Island - Race 22

[Kautya]

Which means teams have NO way to plan/react when trying to manage a response to a situation in a race. Its just comes down to pot luck and perhaps who gets their phone call into Masi's call-waiting first?

That's a worrying precedent for me. The horse-trading between Team Principles and Masi has been a low point for me this year, regardless of the team who is doing it.

Yeap they need to stop team principals getting on the radio for every single complaint. Race engineers can report driving incidents based on driver feedback and that should be it. Stewards or race director can get in touch with the engineers to ask for more data etc if required for the investigation.

 

[jonneymendoza]

The more I think about this race the more it annoys me. Wasnt long ago they DSQ Hamilton from Quali by by the letter of the law. Masi can interpret them how he wants and to the casual viewer it looks like Max was faster than Hamilton

I guess in time you start weighing up Max was taken out in Silverstone and Hungary by merc's and all this gets forgotten about. No one really places any weight that Hamilton had bad reliability when Rosberg won.

Just feel robbed after all the build up to the decider, tighest final race in years etc

Yea its funny how the only time ham lost a title is due to reliability issues or dodgy fia decisions….

Has Ham ever been beaten purely by drive ability in f1?

 

[Kenai]

My view after looking at the FIA response to the Mercedes protest, they should not follow through with their appeal.
The rule (15.3) basically states the Race Director has control over when the SC can be deployed and withdrawn.

I think they will argue it. If the argument is that

The Race Director shall have overriding authority in [...] The use of the safety car.

Means that Masi can implement the safety car in whatever way he sees fit, even if not in accordance with specific safety car rules not only are those rules effectively redundant but logically:

The Race Director shall have overriding authority in [...] The control of [...] the race

You may as well throw away the regulations because 15.3 can also be interpreted to say the Race Director has overriding authority in the control of the race and so can do and rule as he pleases.

I think a decent lawyer tears the stewards logic to pieces.

 

[Slam62]

Yea its funny how the only time ham lost a title is due to reliability issues or dodgy fia decisions….

Has Ham ever been beaten purely by drive ability in f1?

Tbf he messed up in Baku, so not perfect.

 

[Trusty]

I said that I'd have no problem who won this weekend, providing it was clean.

This doesn't feel clean to me. Lewis completely outdrove Max yesterday, this was demonstrated by the fact that with just six laps to go, Max couldn't get close to Lewis, despite being on much newer tyres.

The FIA changed the rules on the fly and forced a one lap race between Lewis and Max, the former on hard, worn tyres that were 40+ laps old and the latter on brand spanking new soft tyres.

There could only be one outcome and Michael Masi must have known that. It's an utter disgrace. The drivers kept it clean, the FIA intervened and gifted the WDC to Max. What a farce.

This is my thinking as well. Feels gamed. Had Latifi not crashed, Lewis would have cruised home to take the race and title..

 

[Kautya]

Well said. This cant be right.

FIA don’t have a leg to stand on in the courts. If MAX doesnt get stripped of his title, FIA should at least be severely punished

I dont think he would be stripped though. If it goes to court, the outcome could be to nullify the race result which could still give him the title win. There was still one lap to go and for all we know Lewis could have had a puncture and retired. So the court or any sporting body cant decide on the outcome of the race and hence the title. The appeal could hardly achieve anything. A strict adherence to rules would be a welcome outcome though.

 

[Slam62]

Plus RB have to sort their own power unit out next year.

It seems to me that Merc are seen as a problem now. Which is correct they spent too much money too wisely.

I'm going to make a bold prediction (maybe) next year is going to be all Merc and it will stay that way until 2026. Liberty are obviously very frustrated with the merc dominance of the hybrid era, hence all the discussions with vw. Don't forget the way the regulations come about is a result of the dominant teams, Toto has been uncompromising in this regard and probably put a few noses out of joint. Hell RB couldn't really get an engine for next year as Merc refused to supply them. Toto has to learn to play the game better.

 

[ZeeWrath]

I think they will argue it. If the argument is that



Means that Masi can implement the safety car in whatever way he sees fit, even if not in accordance with specific safety car rules not only are those rules effectively redundant but logically:



You may as well throw away the regulations because 15.3 can also be interpreted to say the Race Director has overriding authority in the control of the race and so can do and rule as he pleases.

I think a decent lawyer tears the stewards logic to pieces.

Even if he has the power at the end of the day it's a sport and the expectation is he should use it fairly. Verstappen can attack Hamilton but Sainz is blocked from attacking by back markers

 

[adam cool dude]

I dont think he would be stripped though. If it goes to court, the outcome could be to nullify the race result which could still give him the title win. There was still one lap to go and for all we know Lewis could have had a puncture and retired. So the court or any sporting body cant decide on the outcome of the race and hence the title. The appeal could hardly achieve anything. A strict adherence to rules would be a welcome outcome though.

As long as the court rules it null and void it means Verstappen's championship will never be accepted as correct.

 

[Junglist]

I thought a nights sleep would make me a bit softer on this but it's done the opposite. I feel cheated yesterday and I wasn't even in the car!

I hope Mercedes push this as far as possible. I'll feel a bit bad for Max if the title gets taken away from him but he was only in a position to win it due to race control's shocking mistakes.

 

[SDK^]

You may as well throw away the regulations because 15.3 can also be interpreted to say the Race Director has overriding authority in the control of the race and so can do and rule as he pleases.

That's exactly what 15.3 states - it's give the RD power over the race, as a result of the (a) to (e) items.

Whether this is right or wrong is up for debate, but right now - those are the rules.

Rule 15.3

 

[Greboth]

Why were none of you this vocal in the past when FIA showed how inconsistent they are?

People have been but the FIA usual inconsistency is around accidents, blame and penalties. Which are subjective decisions; who was to blame, how much to blame. Or as in this race, did Max forxa Lewis off, did he gain an advantage, did he do enough to give back the advantage. This gives some wiggle room to the decisions whether we like it or not.

This though was Michael Masi ignoring the FIA’s own rules. There is no subjective element to it; the rules say what should happen and they weren’t followed for the sole reason of excitment and drama.

I said elsewhere, sport and competition only works if everyone knows the rules and is playing to the same rules. Arbitrarily changing them 2 laps from the end just makes a mockery of the whole thing. Thisnis also why the FIA hiding behind the race director can decide whatever he likes is BS.

Everyone says about Hamilton being robbed but it’s Max I feel sorry for too. I’m sure he’s arrogant enough to think he won it but this title will always have an asterisk next to it.

 

[Steampunk]

I dont think he would be stripped though. If it goes to court, the outcome could be to nullify the race result which could still give him the title win. There was still one lap to go and for all we know Lewis could have had a puncture and retired. So the court or any sporting body cant decide on the outcome of the race and hence the title. The appeal could hardly achieve anything. A strict adherence to rules would be a welcome outcome though.

The standard thing would be to nullify the last lap (the one the Safety Car should have been doing before withdrawing), or back to the lap before the Safety Car came out and then was mishandled by Masi.

 

[SDK^]

This though was Michael Masi ignoring the FIA’s own rules. There is no subjective element to it; the rules say what should happen and they weren’t followed for the sole reason of excitment and drama

Unfortunately, rule 15.3 gives the RD power of the use of the SC, which in this case determined the championship

 

[KiNgPiN83]

Plus RB have to sort their own power unit out next year.

I don't think that will be too much of an issue: https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-bull-mercedes-engine-poaching/

 

[Kenai]

That's exactly what 15.3 states

I know what it says - I quoted it.

If that is taken to mean he can do whatever he wants without regards to any of the rest of the safety car rules, as per their logic, I can see a decent lawyer tearing that logic to pieces because it's utter nonsense and effectively nullifies virtually the entire sporting regs in deference to that once clause as it gives the Race Director free reign to do absolutely anything he feels like with total impunity.

 

[SDK^]

it gives the Race Director free reign to do absolutely anything he feels like.

Yep !
That is his role and what he's paid to do. [Obviously he makes decisions based on advice of the stewards and the data]

 

[adam cool dude]

I don't think that will be too much of an issue: https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-bull-mercedes-engine-poaching/

Whatever people they poach they might get a hand full of decent guys but the rest will just be going for the wage but it is normally the business itself that will keep going strong. They are starting a brand new business which will always have its teething issues in the beginning.

 

[Kautya]

The standard thing would be to nullify the last lap (the one the Safety Car should have been doing before withdrawing), or back to the lap before the Safety Car came out and then was mishandled by Masi.

Could be but that in the court (to me) would be the equivalent to handing someone a punishment before they have committed the crime just because the events leading upto that point seem to indicate they could be about to commit it. They would have to look at the event as a whole and not just lap by lap (I am guessing as not sure what goes into such court appeals).

But FIA need to clean up house and set it in order, F1 can't continue like this over the new regulations period.

And I am not Max fan but as a driver he has nothing to do with it (the things that were done were outside his control), he took the title by doing his job. The stewards allowed weaving, running opponents off the road, leaving no space. But thats on them not doing their jobs.

 

[Brazo]

It'll be interesting to see how far merc go with this, I think they'll quietly drop it.

Lewis lost it because latifi crashed and Bottas was hopeless if Bottas had been where he should have been Max wouldn't have stood a chance.
If Lewis carries on next year could be a wake up call for RB

Apart from Masi making the rules up.

Lewis had almost won. He was well ahead with a few laps to go and could not lose unless he was artificially placed into a disadvantageous position.