Poll: Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021, Yas Island - Race 22

[Jono8]

As per my previous posts - It's not just the RD. He represents the Stewards, all of the data analysts and other team members providing him the information. He himself is not making the judgements. Much like Borris and any other President of Country, isn't solely calling the shots.

They always have a trail of supporting evidence to backup the decision/s being made. [Not saying the decision is right or wrong]

But it's still absurd to suggest that rules can just be made up on a whim (especially ones that expressly advantage some drivers over others).

The trouble with Masi's decision is that there is no justification to it whatsoever, other than he wanted to manipulate the result outside the scope of the written rules.

 

[Bar]

Whats striking about sub-clauses d and e is that they dont include the conditional statements around "in accordance with the Code or Sporting Regulations" on that basis none of the rules apply in relation to the starting procedure or the safety car. The Race director could quite easily and legally state that Car 1, 2 and 3 can start ahead of the lights going out and everyone else must wait for the lights.

[EDIT]What I do see is every teams lawyers pouring over every clause and sub clause going forward and the cost of getting regulations approved is going to sky rocket. Previously it looks like they were "trusted" to implement them fairly and that they would not be applied in a carte blanche way - Masi just destroyed that trust.

 

[Jono8]

Yep - I agree.
Those rules need to changed and be tested properly so they stand up to scrutiny.

e.g. the 48.12 sentence which states 'any lapped cars pass the SC' - this should be 'all lapped cars pass the SC'
That's a serious error!

Lol, "any" does mean "all" when phrased like that.

Red Bull's argument to that effect was nonsense. Sounds like they need an English lesson.

 

[Journey]

It's not fair and equal, but the rules in place at the time give the power to the RD to control the race events. I imagine these rules have been 'approved' and 'agreed' by the teams, else they wouldn't be racing to them.

So if it is not fair and equal, then no the teams would not agree, how is that sport?

 

[Hawk Tuah]

-When it was realised that letting all cars un lap themselves would result in finishing behind the safety car they changed the rules to only go back to Max Verstappen.

But, that's not what the rules say, that's your interpretation of them.

 

[koolpc]

Would everyone be just as upset if it were Ham and not Max that were in the same position on the last lap?

Its obvious the rules need looking at.

The whole season has seen a mismatch of rule implementation.

Hopefully it will get ironed out for next season.

 

[Slam62]

The real issue is they've never done it before or have they?

 

[Jono8]

I donot understand the technicalities but even to someone like me it was obvious that this was orchestrated so that Max would win.

.

That is because unfortunately it was. The race director made up a completely new rule on the last lap that massively benefitted Max.

 

[Jono8]

Would everyone be just as upset if it were Ham and not Max that were in the same position on the last lap?

Its obvious the rules need looking at.

The whole season has seen a mismatch of rule implementation.

Hopefully it will get ironed out for next season.

Yes. It would have tainted a Lewis win in that scenario.

Rules just cannot be made up on the fly like that, especially ones that are obviously advantageous to only some of the drivers.

 

[Bar]

Would everyone be just as upset if it were Ham and not Max that were in the same position on the last lap?

Its obvious the rules need looking at.

The whole season has seen a mismatch of rule implementation.

Hopefully it will get ironed out for next season.

I think people would be. Ultimately this has become less about the championship and more about the sports integrity. A basic principle of sport is everyone is treated equally, consistency is key. Some incidents are harder to be consistent in and I do agree every incident needs judged on its merits, however the specific choices made in this occasion only served to guarantee Max the win. Any other combination of choices would have likely resulted in Hamilton winning. Its that direct manipulation and setting of new precedents that is so disturbing.

 

[chroniclard]

Outside of the trolling/lolling even Max fans know how shady it was.

 

[Jono8]

But, that's not what the rules say, that's your interpretation of them.

No it isn't. There are no rules that state only some cars get to unlap themselves , because that would obviously be absurdly unfair on some of the competitors.

None of the teams would ever agree to such a regulation.

 

[SDK^]

As a Hamilton fan, this side-by-side onboard with pit radio of the last lap is hard to watch.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...pFFCCBYMgDX7M6ONSL9J8jJEx8qORP3_ZWsUAYJbymEcQ

Hamilton needs to be more defensive aggressive in 2022.

 

[Mesai]

That is because unfortunately it was. The race director made up a completely new rule on the last lap that massively benefitted Max.

I don't agree on the specific bias towards Max or RB as decisions have been consistently poor on both sides all season.

The FIA made a very poor/panicked last minute decision, which all but guaranteed Max then win. Merc also had the disadvantage of no 2nd driver so Lewis never had pit advantage.

 

[OspreyO]

Would everyone be just as upset if it were Ham and not Max that were in the same position on the last lap?

Its obvious the rules need looking at.

The whole season has seen a mismatch of rule implementation.

Hopefully it will get ironed out for next season.

Yes I dislike them equally.

 

[Greboth]

Whats striking about sub-clauses d and e is that they dont include the conditional statements around "in accordance with the Code or Sporting Regulations" on that basis none of the rules apply in relation to the starting procedure or the safety car. The Race director could quite easily and legally state that Car 1, 2 and 3 can start ahead of the lights going out and everyone else must wait for the lights.

[EDIT]What I do see is every teams lawyers pouring over every clause and sub clause going forward and the cost of getting regulations approved is going to sky rocket. Previously it looks like they were "trusted" to implement them fairly and that they would not be applied in a carte blanche way - Masi just destroyed that trust.

It's not a surprise the FIA found themselves not guilty of making a mistake. But I struggle to see how the FIA think the 15.3 gives the race director carte blanche decision over the safety car will hold up in court if Merc take this further. To take that one part of the sentence on it's own is ignoring the rest of the sentence and the whole section holistically. Why mention the clerk working in consultation with the race director or that the clerk can give orders with the agreement of the race director? The reason, the race directors "overriding authority" is over any decision the clerk makes with respect to the things list in subsections a-e, not over all other rules and regulations.

This would make logical sense in the way it is written and with how it would be enacted. The clerk changes each race while the race director does not, the race director has more experience of incidents and is ultimately responsible so the buck stops with him. Therefore he should be able to use his experience to override the clerk if he deems it necessary. But overriding the clerk =/= overriding all other written articles, rules or regulations.

 

[Steampunk]

Could be but that in the court (to me) would be the equivalent to handing someone a punishment before they have committed the crime just because the events leading upto that point seem to indicate they could be about to commit it. They would have to look at the event as a whole and not just lap by lap (I am guessing as not sure what goes into such court appeals).

But FIA need to clean up house and set it in order, F1 can't continue like this over the new regulations period.

And I am not Max fan but as a driver he has nothing to do with it (the things that were done were outside his control), he took the title by doing his job. The stewards allowed weaving, running opponents off the road, leaving no space. But thats on them not doing their jobs.

The difference is that Masi broke the rules. When it's the people running the race that screw up this badly, all you can do is nullify everything that went wrong and take it from there. Otherwise you could say that it's not Hamilton's fault that he's lost the win because of what Masi did by breaking the rules.

 

[OspreyO]

I don't agree on the specific bias towards Max or RB as decisions have been consistently poor on both sides all season.

The FIA made a very poor/panicked last minute decision, which all but guaranteed Max then win. Merc also had the disadvantage of no 2nd driver so Lewis never had pit advantage.

The other decisions didn't decide the championship based on a one lap sprint\drag race with one driver on bad tyres and one driver on good tyres.

Kinda makes a joke of the whole thing.

 

[adam cool dude]

Yes I dislike them equally.

I am in the same boat. You could even look up my post history. I have never been a fan of Lewis but respect where it is due. In the Mclaren days I was always a big fan of Jenson but what happened yesterday I have never seen. Even 1994 wasn't as dodgy as this.

 

[Mr Jack]

I think people would be. Ultimately this has become less about the championship and more about the sports integrity. A basic principle of sport is everyone is treated equally, consistency is key. Some incidents are harder to be consistent in and I do agree every incident needs judged on its merits, however the specific choices made in this occasion only served to guarantee Max the win. Any other combination of choices would have likely resulted in Hamilton winning. Its that direct manipulation and setting of new precedents that is so disturbing.

Agreed. I don't believe Masi did this to favour Max/RedBull, I believe he did it because he was desperate to avoid a finish under Safety Car - something that it's generally agreed is undesirable. The trouble is that a finish under safety car is what the rules, and all convention on application of those rules, says should happen. The fundamental, basic, idea of Sport is that it is a competition that occurs on a level playing field determined by the rules of that Sport: for Masi to ride roughshod over that in order to prioritise the entertainment of a final lap decider strikes at the very nature of F1 as a sport. There's also a big problem with decision to prioritise the battle between Max and Lewis over giving the other drivers in the race their fair shots at improving their positions.

If he'd called an unnecessary red flag in order to create a final few laps of racing I'd have a lot less problem with it. That would have been both fairer to all competitors and not involved writing ad hoc rules on the fly.