New car delays.

[Journey]

They got burnt in 2008, not wanting to get caught out again they saw the sniff of a recession they cancelled all their orders and now they they are getting burnt because they over reacted and can’t get the parts.

Yep, mass cancellations or semiconductor orders which got snapped up by others in different industries, now they are at the back of the queue. That and the the legacy car market is about as agile as 114 year old with a zimmer frame.
When you look at the some of the Dacia's etc. that only have a phone/tablet holdrt and no infotainment, maybe that is the better option whack in a the latest iPad, or Galaxy S8 Tab etc. since they are better than 99% of the systems built into cars, don't cost anywhere near as much and can be easily swapped out. All they need are speakers and a Bluetooth module fitted. The all the maker need to source are the button, knobs and switches they love so much.

 

[sandys]

Its also worth noting that you don't use the same chips for Automotive or even the same processes, things for automotive have to go through much higher qual and DFMEA than the crap in your pocket even if it seems fundamentally the same.

 

[Simon]

Yep, mass cancellations or semiconductor orders which got snapped up by others in different industries, now they are at the back of the queue. That and the the legacy car market is about as agile as 114 year old with a zimmer frame.
When you look at the some of the Dacia's etc. that only have a phone/tablet holdrt and no infotainment, maybe that is the better option whack in a the latest iPad, or Galaxy S8 Tab etc. since they are better than 99% of the systems built into cars, don't cost anywhere near as much and can be easily swapped out. All they need are speakers and a Bluetooth module fitted. The all the maker need to source are the button, knobs and switches they love so much.

Tesla had shortages too. Stop the legacy narrative

 

[Simon]

Its also worth noting that you don't use the same chips for Automotive or even the same processes, things for automotive have to go through much higher qual and DFMEA than the crap in your pocket even if it seems fundamentally the same.

No no. The armchair experts know better

 

[Jonnycoupe]

I’m not sure what mining farms has got to do with car manufacturers and camera modules.

Crypto mining asking what thats got to do with it!?! - yet more evident of ignorance, and again you are getting more out of this than me, a large glut of cards are being bulk bought by people so demand is skyrocketing- my Neighbour has 3 graphic cards hooked up to mine crypto...

Any guesses what Just In Time means? Normal narrative observed here:

Tesla has issues with airbags (fixed with software rewrite which is commendable) and even removing one of the steering sensors from the cars to not adhere to Level 2 ADAS - hows that for Agile? Its utter comedy.
SOURCE:
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/07/tesla-cut-a-steering-component-to-deal-with-chip-shortage.html

I notice non of the armchair experts have again failed to address the Playstation 5 major shortages just poking at 'car makers'?
SOURCE
https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/7/2...tage-end-tsmc-samsung-ps5-supply-demand-intel

Maybe they should sell a chip or two from their shoulders and get these jobs as Directors of procurement where its clearly so easy to fix - I fail to see how they degrenerate in such direct personal comments to an industry doing everything they can. Guys its just embarassing.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

It’s slightly ironic that the three areas you cited where there are shortages are all form companies that have either increased deliveries or at least maintained deliveries.

There are no PlayStation 5 on the shelves yet their sales are in line with the previous model. Nvidia are making more GPUs than ever, just because there is a new type of customer doesn’t mean they aren’t producing the goods in their normal volumes. Compared to the car market which has fallen off a cliff despite there being very strong demand.

I’m sure the car sector is doing everything they can but ultimately how long can they keep up the ‘yeh but covid’ excuse when failing to deliver and in the case of BMW, charging you for the option you are not getting anyway.

At some point you have to stop apologising for them, acknowledge that they got it wrong, in some cases, very, very wrong and now they are playing catch up and paying the price for it.

So how long can car manufacturers keep blaming covid for their shortfalls?

 

[chanjy]

Crypto mining asking what thats got to do with it!?! - yet more evident of ignorance, and again you are getting more out of this than me, a large glut of cards are being bulk bought by people so demand is skyrocketing- my Neighbour has 3 graphic cards hooked up to mine crypto...

Any guesses what Just In Time means? Normal narrative observed here:

Tesla has issues with airbags (fixed with software rewrite which is commendable) and even removing one of the steering sensors from the cars to not adhere to Level 2 ADAS - hows that for Agile? Its utter comedy.
SOURCE:
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/07/tesla-cut-a-steering-component-to-deal-with-chip-shortage.html

I notice non of the armchair experts have again failed to address the Playstation 5 major shortages just poking at 'car makers'?
SOURCE
https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/7/2...tage-end-tsmc-samsung-ps5-supply-demand-intel

Maybe they should sell a chip or two from their shoulders and get these jobs as Directors of procurement where its clearly so easy to fix - I fail to see how they degrenerate in such direct personal comments to an industry doing everything they can. Guys its just embarassing.

I don't see why you are cutting carmakers this much slack? I don't see demand for cars skyrocketing tbh (maybe going up a bit, but not skyrocketing) and GPUs/Playstations are on a bleeding edge process node where they are seriously constrained by supply. Car chips are on much old processes where the supply side hasn't really changed that much over the last 2 years.

Carmakers are defintely not blameless in this, in that they appear to have cut their orders and now the production capacity has been taken up by other clients. If they hadn't then there wouldn't be such a shortage.

 

[SDK^]

There getting better but you only have to take a look at what a £400 smart phone can do and a the laggy mess of a touch screen in a car that costs £50k.

I think some car companies source their infotainment chips from the rejected/binned chips off the kids VTech laptop product line!

 

[Journey]

So how long can car manufacturers keep blaming covid for their shortfalls?

Until they go bust? or the companies who secure the chips fastest take the sales away from the others who couldn't. The likes of Kia and Hyundai really saw benefits last year, especially in Europe with 21% better sales, and it sold more cars than the Renault Group. I guess it pays to be close to the manufacturing of the parts on a geographical and political level.

Carmakers are defintely not blameless in this, in that they appear to have cut their orders and now the production capacity has been taken up by other clients. If they hadn't then there wouldn't be such a shortage.

You can't say that, don't use facts to distort the narrative of the legacy car makers who say anything other than admitting they made a poor decision and now they are paying for it. Pretty ironic really, they cut chip orders to save money, and now they are probably losing a great deal more because of it.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

It’s slightly ironic that the three areas you cited where there are shortages are all form companies that have either increased deliveries or at least maintained deliveries.

Its possibly a fair observation but its not ironic, its industries where both consumer demand (by being locked at home), assembly plants (most car plants closed inline with governement guidance unlike Elon throwing a strop in California) and sales mechanims(most dealers were closed for servicing, lets alone sales) could continue through lockdown

I don't see why you are cutting carmakers this much slack?

It’s not rocket science…

 

[lordrobs]

Pretty ironic really, they cut chip orders to save money, and now they are probably losing a great deal more because of it.

So what was their alternative?

 

[jpaul]

The likes of Kia and Hyundai really saw benefits last year, especially in Europe with 21% better sales, and it sold more cars than the Renault Group. I guess it pays to be close to the manufacturing of the parts on a geographical and political level.

they may have less technologically advanced cars too - the withdrawn tesla back up fsd power steering unit, compared to the traction control in kona's

It’s well known that car manufacturers and their parts suppliers just aren’t very agile and are in the Stone Age when it comes to infotainment, electronic systems and software.

like sand said - not sure the touch screen on a mobile phone functions under automotive operating environment .. -25C > ?
field testing of car systems, and managing stock needed for cars with 10+ year lifespan , unlike (greta generation) throw-away mobile phones, means car tech is more conservative


Range rover 3d vision system apparently needs 4 hd fish-eye cameras , so maybe is a question of 2 regular front/back camerared cars versus one 3d.

 

[Journey]

So what was their alternative?

Hedge, cancel fewer orders in the short term, and then if sales didn't pick up then push back or cancel orders and use what they have stock piled. They don't/didn't understand how to implement JIT correctly, and are now paying the price, or the loss. However I guess they were told from the very top of the chain cut as many costs as possible, and we'll deal with it later. Still it would be much better if they just came out with it and admitted them made a rubbish decision, or several.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Who do they 'come out to'. You expecting a letter in the post?

 

[Greebo]

I agree some people on here are giving car manufacturers a free pass. Clearly some manufacturers got it right.

My BMW X5 is coming in 2 weeks time from an order I placed 14 weeks from order to delivery and its now even coming with wireless charging and a touchscreen although there was some debate during its build whether it would or wouldnt have those two things on. Its only still the upgraded stereo which is still absent and cant even be ordered.

Compare that with VW who are current saying 22 months for the VW Touareg R and according to my dealer so far VW have yet to deliver a single Touareg R in the UK since it was launched back in April 2021. On that basis VW may as well have not even bothered launching the car in the UK and the facelift 2023 model will be here before they deliver any of their orders. Thats got to be on VW and their ordering system for chips. This is VWs flagship car and probably the biggest profit margin and they cant even deliver a single car for over a year?

If you want to do the PS5 analogy that would be like saying not a single PS5 was shipped to the UK in the first 22 months after launch.

 

[Bear]

Its also worth noting that you don't use the same chips for Automotive or even the same processes, things for automotive have to go through much higher qual and DFMEA than the crap in your pocket even if it seems fundamentally the same.

I dont believe that to be true, they might go through a much higher qual as an assembly but the parts will just be COTS parts. Even the defence sector barely uses MIL Spec parts any more and use COTS parts, they just derate the parts so they run barely stressed at all (thermally/voltage/current etc) and they still go through the higher qual process required.

 

[lordrobs]

Hedge, cancel fewer orders in the short term, and then if sales didn't pick up then push back or cancel orders and use what they have stock piled. They don't/didn't understand how to implement JIT correctly, and are now paying the price, or the loss. However I guess they were told from the very top of the chain cut as many costs as possible, and we'll deal with it later. Still it would be much better if they just came out with it and admitted them made a rubbish decision, or several.

"Use what they have stock piled"... is that how just in time works?

Obviously we are looking at this with 20:20 hindsight so we know the pinch point is Semiconductors but at the time that wasn't necessarily obvious... so best take that approach with every component or material required to build a car?

 

[Jonnycoupe]

I agree some people on here are giving car manufacturers a free pass. Clearly some manufacturers got it right.

If you want to do the PS5 analogy that would be like saying not a single PS5 was shipped to the UK in the first 22 months after launch.

Careful kid, what credibility do you have to cast a view like that? Some of the people here are 'the car makers'

With your PS5 'statement' you are also suggesting not a single Range Rover Velar was delivered in 2021. Which is not the case.

 

[Simon]

I did enjoy the ‘ they should have stockpiled cause they don’t understand JIT’ comment.

You can’t even get wood for fences so how everyone is a procurement expert on here is beyond me

 

[Kenai]

I did enjoy the ‘ they should have stockpiled cause they don’t understand JIT’ comment.

You can’t even get wood for fences so how everyone is a procurement expert on here is beyond me

Some people clearly missing out on the big big salaries they should be earning as the procurement directors of billion dollar manufacturing companies.