Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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What if the choice was free and independent guaranteed by two super powers?
The only trouble there is that Russia is not a superpower. It may have been in the mid 20th century to thought that it was, but it ain't no more. It was the bogey under the bed, now it is just able to fight one country and not lose too badly.
 
Of course they wouldn't, since Ukraine isn't in NATO
NATO has said they want Ukraine in. NATO are supposed to defend countries from Russia. Ukraine just isn't quite there yet in requirements. If you Nato really cared about Ukraine, I'm certain they could give them a small favour of imtimidating the russians into standing down.

But if you've never had any history of preemptively shooting people you are negotiating with
America has though.
 
Russia signed the documents and agreed to be bound by them.

A bit like Brexit.. we also have a putinesque leadership in the tory party.. I can't think that people will draw parallels before the next election.

World's changed too much in the space of a few days, that doesn't really matter much anymore. Though I should hope that it reminds the government that there's a consequence for nicking from the public purse.
 
Well, if Russia take over Ukraine they’ve just automatically put their borders on yet more Nato countries. And let’s not be naive, it will be Moscow in charge of Ukraine with whatever puppet government they put in.
Well if the option is for the conflicting border to be closer or further away from Moscow, which option do you think the Russians will take?
 
Well, if Russia take over Ukraine they’ve just automatically put their borders on yet more Nato countries. And let’s not be naive, it will be Moscow in charge of Ukraine with whatever puppet government they put in.

Well that would keep NATO further away from Moscow would it not ? either that or Ukraine promise not to join NATO which would also keep NATO further away from Moscow.
 
I'm pretty certain that Ukraine joining NATO was the issue that caused this invasion in the first place.

If you mean 'The issue is that Putin believes sovereign countries in Eastern Europe should not be permitted to make free decisions about their own defence alliances', then yes, that's certainly the issue.

Is Zelensky himself going to these talks? I hope not as it could easily be a trap to kill him.

They'll send a delegation.
 
NATO has said they want Ukraine in. NATO are supposed to defend countries from Russia. Ukraine just isn't quite there yet in requirements. If you Nato really cared about Ukraine, I'm certain they could give them a small favour of imtimidating the russians into standing down.

Well, just because you're certain, doesn't make your analysis any less wrong. As current events of what has actually happened has shown you, so no need for any hypothetical.

NATO is a defensive force to defend its members, no matter what lies Putin puts out or believes.


America has though.

So has Russia, but we're talking about NATO
 
Well if the option is for the conflicting border to be closer or further away from Moscow, which option do you think the Russians will take?

It won't matter because allowing it will just mean Russia will come back in the future asking for the rest of the USSR back citing Slavic nationalism for their rationale.

The only reason any of this is even a problem is because Russia fears democracy.
 
looks like the Russian Economy is about to be thrown off the cliff, imho they must be pushed so far as to react. If we nuke their economy then what do they have to lose?

Everything that's reliant on their economy. Which is why this is the ideal time to nuke their economy and inflict so much collateral damage that the entire Russian financial system takes decades to recover.
 
Further escalation either means 2 things: a conventional war - which millions will die or a nuclear war.. which means millions will die.
More like - conventional war, millions die then as there's no option they fallback to nuclear and more millions killed but there will nolonger be any warmongering parties.

I know the Chinese have been quiet. They have their own economic abyss they'r'e skilfully attempting to navigate around. If they don't then their own economy will collapse. Hence I suspect they have the means to expand but with the property crash etc I think they're a little more realistic so would take the long slow approach. Trump and Putin have basically put the stopper back in their bottle which must annoy the crap out of them.
 
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