Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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These occasional tales of Russian troops being reluctant to shoot at Ukrainian soldiers as they’re virtually cousins who speak a similar language and share a similar lifestyle gave me pause for thought.
I emailed my elder son who moved to Germany after doing six years in the army and asked his opinion.
He said, “It doesn’t work like that dad, the officers give orders to the NCOs, who in turn give those orders to the grunts, and its drilled into us to obey any order from a superior.”
“The order is fire on the enemy, not ‘fire on the enemy unless you don’t want to because they speak like us’, so if we’d been ordered to shell Cardiff or Dundee, we may have been reluctant, but some of us would have no doubt done it, or risk being put on an extremely serious charge .”
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
an opinion piece in the Telegraph praising Boris. Notice how it skirts over that we didn't send any lethal defensive weapons until 5 weeks ago when the US has been for years
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yes bbc reports that telegrap kind of thing with no warning it maybe politically biassed
also not discussing

The published value of UK arms licensed for export to the Saudi-led coalition since the bombing began in March 2015 is £8.4 billion (including £7.0 billion to Saudi Arabia alone); however, CAAT estimates that the real value of arms to Saudi Arabia is over £20 billion, while the value of sales to the Coalition as a whole (including UAE and others) is over £22 billion.

The UN has estimated that the war in Yemen had killed 377,000 people by the end of 2021, through direct and indirect causes. Over 150,000 of these deaths were the direct result of the armed conflict, while far more have died due to hunger and disease as a result of the humanitarian crisis caused by the war. Nearly 15,000 civilians have been killed by direct military action, most of them in air strikes by the Saudi-led Coalition.
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UK could be rightfully reproached by foreign powers - despite our investment, opec is not opening the taps
 
Dis86 said:
It is unbelievable that you don't have the intelligence to come up with the answer for yourself...
Where's the evidence she's aiming to be with her close family? There is already a process in place for this and she's been rejected so clearly that isn't the case. She is in a safe country.Most French speak very good English.
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The fact that you are guessing or just makings things up to support your arguments is not a very good basis to get people to agree with your overall point. You will find no stats or estimates anywhere that state that "most French people speak very good English".

We simply do not yet have all the facts about this situation from both sides but making things up to support your particular stance is just wrong all ends up, no matter which side of the argument you want to position yourself.

Though if we could stay more on specific Ukrainian matters and not diverge to immigration law and rules in general it would be appreciated by most.
 
dave28 said:
UK are not great at that actually, we are a laughing stock in the Albanina criminal underworld who have extremely violent organised crime gangs come over as refugees
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Well for a start there is no war in Albania, so we get no refugees from there, only economic migrants.

Secondly how do you know so much about the operations and thoughts of extemely organised and violent Albanian criminal gangs in the UK?

Something you'd like to let us know? :p;):D
 
Jean-F said:
These occasional tales of Russian troops being reluctant to shoot at Ukrainian soldiers as they’re virtually cousins who speak a similar language and share a similar lifestyle gave me pause for thought.
I emailed my elder son who moved to Germany after doing six years in the army and asked his opinion.
He said, “It doesn’t work like that dad, the officers give orders to the NCOs, who in turn give those orders to the grunts, and its drilled into us to obey any order from a superior.”
“The order is fire on the enemy, not ‘fire on the enemy unless you don’t want to because they speak like us’, so if we’d been ordered to shell Cardiff or Dundee, we may have been reluctant, but some of us would have no doubt done it, or risk being put on an extremely serious charge .”
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Yes, but to some degree a conscripted or military service soldier is always going to be doing it because they were forced to.
Ive never been in a war but from what ive heard and read, it usually comes down to a very personal level of your platoon "brothers" vs their platoon "brothers"
You fight to defend your friends and comrades, the 12 guys you are living with day in day out and have been. I dont know how long military service is in Russia? Id guess the surrender bros are all 6 months in on a camping trip. Phone battery ran out, 2 days without snapchat? out of chikky nuggers, i know id be surrendering if it meant not dying for no good reason.
A bunch of housing estate conscripts might not feel the same when it comes to the crunch.
I'm sure for every conscientious soul there's a brainwashed mentalist too, that will follow orders. :p so yeah....
I guess it just comes down to how threatened do you feel for you and your brothers/sisters.... I am in Sweden after all equality etc.
 
Sankari said:
Thanks Frank, but you're at least a week behind the news on this.
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Well at least its time to send the Nuns in! :D
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Jean-F said:
These occasional tales of Russian troops being reluctant to shoot at Ukrainian soldiers as they’re virtually cousins who speak a similar language and share a similar lifestyle gave me pause for thought.
I emailed my elder son who moved to Germany after doing six years in the army and asked his opinion.
He said, “It doesn’t work like that dad, the officers give orders to the NCOs, who in turn give those orders to the grunts, and its drilled into us to obey any order from a superior.”
“The order is fire on the enemy, not ‘fire on the enemy unless you don’t want to because they speak like us’, so if we’d been ordered to shell Cardiff or Dundee, we may have been reluctant, but some of us would have no doubt done it, or risk being put on an extremely serious charge .”
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Just as I'd always imagined it to be, doing the dirty deeds of your paymaster with as little thought as possible. I was only following my orders.
 
Efour said:
Yes, but to some degree a conscripted or military service soldier is always going to be doing it because they were forced to.
Ive never been in a war but from what ive heard and read, it usually comes down to a very personal level of your platoon "brothers" vs their platoon "brothers"
You fight to defend your friends and comrades, the 12 guys you are living with day in day out and have been. I dont know how long military service is in Russia? Id guess the surrender bros are all 6 months in on a camping trip. Phone battery ran out, 2 days without snapchat? out of chikky nuggers, i know id be surrendering if it meant not dying for no good reason.
A bunch of housing estate conscripts might not feel the same when it comes to the crunch.
I'm sure for every conscientious soul there's a brainwashed mentalist too, that will follow orders. :p so yeah....
I guess it just comes down to how threatened do you feel for you and your brothers/sisters.... I am in Sweden after all equality etc.
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I think a lot of the reluctance to fight and so on comes down to - when evidence of massing of man power started to emerge much of the picture was of new draft troops (basically conscripts) fresh out of whatever their equivalent of basic training is issued with basic kit - 2-3 magazines for their AK, rations for 3 days and seeming limited supplies.

The infantry which has been sent into Ukraine seems to be bulked out with 60+% of those soldiers and they likely exhausted their resources for fighting, not getting resupplied in time, and know it.

Which is probably why in so many instances they've abandoned entire convoys of vehicles and retreated/fled.
 
Dis86 said:
Weird...why do we end up with Africans and Asians heading here with no family or ties, according to your logic?
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Are you conflating asylum seekers with illegal immigrants? It would not be the first time someone of your "disposition" would do this to fit their blinkered biased narrative. I would suggest that someone seeking asylum via legal means is most likely going to have what they feel legitimate reasons to assume their application has merit. The illegal immigrants on the other hand would know they have no chance getting a visa, so use illegal means of entry.

Asylum statistics - House of Commons Library (parliament.uk)
  • In 2020, there were around 6 asylum applications for every 10,000 people living in the UK. Across the EU27 there were 11 asylum applications for every 10,000 people. When compared with EU countries, the UK ranked 14th out of the individual countries in terms of the number of asylum applications per capita.
 
MartinPrince said:
The fact that you are guessing or just makings things up to support your arguments is not a very good basis to get people to agree with your overall point. You will find no stats or estimates anywhere that state that "most French people speak very good English".

We simply do not yet have all the facts about this situation from both sides but making things up to support your particular stance is just wrong all ends up, no matter which side of the argument you want to position yourself.

Though if we could stay more on specific Ukrainian matters and not diverge to immigration law and rules in general it would be appreciated by most.
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How's that guessing? It's taught in French schools and having both holidayed and worked there I have never had an issue communicating in english when my french has not sufficed. It's the defacto language of business. I believe its about 40% speak it to a passable level this will be higher in cities and lower in rural areas.
 
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