Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Sorry this is just not true, they have committed just about everything they can use in this situation.

The Russian plan was for a short war, at least one of the trucks I saw a picture of was crammed with riot gear, the paratroopers they sent in and lost were relatively lightweight but supposed to scare the locals into submission unfortunately they didn't.

I've just seen film of at least 40 year old gear being railed in and also a load of civilian type vehicles. They all had zs painted on them.

While obviously the airborne and marine forces are largely from the regular forces likewise elements of groups like the 4th Guard, OSINT has shown the forces built up for the invasion were significantly bulked up, especially the regular infantry, from a new draft separate to their standing forces. It is hard to know exact numbers but likely only about 40% of what they committed comes from their regular army.

Likewise they've spent the last few years pulling mothballed stock back into service which makes up a significant amount of what has been used - very few T72B3s or T90s, etc. Same with the heavier self-propelled mortar vehicles and so on - which came from a refurbishment program which finished in December 2021. A large amount of this gear isn't from in-service or regular reserve stock.

Agreed the expectation here seems to be that Ukrainians would fold at a show of force which simply hasn't happened - quite the opposite.

For whatever reason they seem to be trying to avoid weakening their main forces hence desperately pulling out 40 year old vehicles for reinforcement. I suspect partly because the state of their main forces is below par and can't sustain losses without leaving them exposed.
 
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Don't know why the Russian army is a paper tiger.

Because Russia greatly inflates it figures due to it still using vast numbers of soviet era vehicles that seem to be made from tin cans and pig iron. It only has a small, limited number of the latest hardware and even that is said to be crap. And then there's the actual soldiers themselves, they're poorly trained, poorly fed and poorly equipped.
 
Russia is deliberately declaring humanitarian corridors then targeting civilians who try to use them.

No more.

It's time for the Western nations to enter the war to defend Ukraine. If Russia launches then so be it. We cannot let this go on the basis of (likely empty) threats.


Live in fear for the rest of our lives? Let this guy know we can be walked over?

Putin will pay the price for his crimes. Millions of Europeans won't have to die first

Here Here, and public opinion seems to be heading that way

I’m all for punishing Putin and hope his dies a painful, gruesome and long death, but if your going to strike first, you have to make sure you get every single one of his ICBMs at the same time, if you can’t do that the world wide devastation wouldn’t be worth thinking about.
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/06/world/europe/ukraine-irpin-civilian-death.html link to the news article for all that need to see what is happening to civilians today that are trying to flee. Some here need to see as they think it is some video game or a movie and forget real people are dying and innocent people that have nothing to do with this war. All they want is to flee and go to a safe place and this is what is happening to them.

Yes sorry today I am really upset by all of this and upset a lot by some of the posts by people on these very forums and shocked by their view of the world and saddened by how heartless some are, put yourself in their shoes for one moment and then reply, imagine that was your loved ones and family.


Exactly, and the same people would be demanding help if it was happening in this country, even if we wasn't in NATO.
 
It's getting really old now Jamie.. you still don't get it it's not about political parties it's about the government we have now doing the right things, no one cares what party they belong to unless they have some ties to them. You are now clearly trolling everyone here that says anything against this government, we live in a country of free speech and have the rights to call out any of our government no matter what party they belong to.

Honestly today I'm shocked to see how some of our long term members on this forum have behaved with zero compassion to the events of these suffering people and think it is okay for our government to make them suffer more, yes I want checks and all the things that need to be done to protect our country and our civilians, but ask yourself one thing.. didn't our government know we will soon have a refugee issue and we should setup safe places for them while we work out their paperwork in the UK and under security while helping these people safe, warm and fed, they are women and children 99% of them if not more ? They have done nothing and anyone that says they have show me the proof and stop spreading fake news.


To all the people in the forums saying the right things and keeping the tread updated with events, you know who you all are, thank you and keep it up. Mods thank you for keeping this topic in order too, I know it must be hard not to just nuke some of these posts but I believe in free speech and want to hear all sides, but can we please have a little more control over the people trolling others in such a horrible situation that we are all emotionally involved in and some think it's funny to wind people up.



Just a little reminder ..

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Our government is not making Ukrainians suffer. They're sending humanitarian aid. Have been training their military. Providing defensive weapons. They've also been applying political pressure on Russia and working with allies to do the same.
 
Because Russia greatly inflates it figures due to it still using vast numbers of soviet era vehicles that seem to be made from tin cans and pig iron. It only has a small, limited number of the latest hardware and even that is said to be crap. And then there's the actual soldiers themselves, they're poorly trained, poorly fed and poorly equipped.
Remember when the Turks shot down that Russian jet in Syria they were talking tough then but its funny the Turks could take them on on their own never mind NATO.
 
Our government is not making Ukrainians suffer. They're sending humanitarian aid. Have been training their military. Providing defensive weapons. They've also been applying political pressure on Russia and working with allies to do the same.


I am grateful they are doing all these things but so is the rest of the world and doing more than us too to help in their own countries the refugees.

You know as I do we can do more, the people of the UK want to see more being done too.
 
Russia is deliberately declaring humanitarian corridors then targeting civilians who try to use them.

No more.

It's time for the Western nations to enter the war to defend Ukraine. If Russia launches then so be it. We cannot let this go on the basis of (likely empty) threats.

Although I sympathise with the idea, the reality could be too horrific to contemplate. I'd like to think Putin is rational enough to not take it nuclear but he isn't behaving rationally right now. The best hope it still to give Ukraine and its people all the help we can, keep the international pressure on Putin, his cabinet and the oligarchs and make life for him in Russia so difficult that he either is left with no choice but to pull out or he is replaced. The International Criminal Court should bring cases against him, his ministers and military leaders if they have the evidence to do so.
 
...but if your going to strike first, you have to make sure you get every single one of his ICBMs at the same time...

I'm not suggesting we start a nuclear war. Putin is trying to convince the West he'll start a nuclear war over conventional warfare in Ukraine. I think he's blatantly bluffing. The question is what are we going to accept before we call that bluff.

But @LabR@t is right (possibly for the first time in his life) that is a high stakes question. I, for one, am glad I don't have to make that decision. Neither I, nor anyone else, knows what the outcome will be.
 
It's a horrible dilemma, risk everything that ever was, and is to save a comparative few. I am reminded however of the genocides around the world in which there was more suffering.. more death.. more horror and yet there we did nothing except give aid and medical help. Just because this is in Europe does not mean we have to intervene. I seem to remember there being the talk of "provoking a Nato response" in the captured/intercepted plans and perhaps this is it. It's heartbreaking it really is, but perhaps the best aid we can give the world is giving it time and not responding in a way that provokes a response. it's a No win scenario..
 
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