Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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ThundyCat said:
I wonder how long it will be before people at top level realise Putin has lost the plot and oust him from power.
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As much as I'd love to be wrong, knowing what I know of Russians and their mentality, I can't see Putin being ousted anytime soon. He is just beloved in parts of Russia, especially among the older generation.
The contradiction is that most people don't want a war with the Ukraine but they will still support Putin because he is the strong man that Russian needs.

Who else is going to ride around on a horse bare chested?

I don't think it so much of Putin loosing the plot, after all this has been in the works since 2014 and isn't totally out of keeping with what Russians have done previously when 'threatened' by NATO expansion. I think this is more a case of the big gamble not paying off. Russia really did not expect this push back from the rest of the world/E.U., especially as it supplies much of the gas to the E.U. and we hardly did anything of substance when they annexed Crimea or when they supported the separatists in the Donbas or when Russian equipment downed flight MH17 over Ukraine.

Though now that the **** has truly hit the fan I still think they will tuff it out with Putin in charge. What clever and ruthless leaders do is to make sure there is no natural successor in key positions, that everybody can rally around to make an overthrow easier. (A bit like what Boris has done now. ;))
 
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"Russia is demanding that Ukraine cease military action, change its constitution to enshrine neutrality, acknowledge Crimea as Russian territory and recognise the separatist republics of Donetsk and Lugansk as independent territories, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said.
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I wonder if they mean the whole region of just the boundaries set out in the Minsk agreements?
 
The people who have a lot to say about independence and protecting borders have decided they don't care about either of those principles when it comes to Ukraine.

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CapitalOne said:
Don't forget folks some people will take an opportunity in a discussion like this to be the baiter, show off or just vent. It's all opinions and you know what is said about those :D

On a serious note though we need to be thinking long term as will as short term. When the crisis is over what is the world going to look like? Russia/China a new superpower and a new Iron Curtain? Or do we think (obv. outside of Ukraine) there will be an element of forgiveness? For me this is the current issue, do you partially capitulate to make things (possibly) "less worse" or go the other way and make things (possibly) "more worse"? If it wasn't for those "possiblies" I think we'd have our answer. For the record I am illustraing the paradigm and am not on the capitulation side.

I do think we would all be better humans if we focussed on the humanitatrian angle where we can help (the public) and as a country we are not going to come out of this well unless the government start stepping up to the immigation plate. This is of course difficult for them because they are Tories and therefore "one nation" and not "one continent" or "one world". There has been military assistance of course and that is to be appreciated, however at this point you might summarise the UK approach as "Fuel the fighting but stuff the people".
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Forgiveness by who? Ukraine probably won't forgive the Russians, the west has the attention span of a goldfish so they will forget soon enough, and if the Russian people start to feel the pinch of the sanctions they won't. The rest of the world that has been bombed and left with infighting due to action of the west and are now looking at the hypocrisy probably won't be forgiving anytime soon.

While it would be nice, it will take multiple generations before there is any sort of forgiveness.
 
This war has made me appreciate a number of things:

- our own security

- the impressive logistics of when the US went into Iraq and Afghanistan

- why my grandmother said to never trust Germans having lived through the war. I’m not sure I’ll ever feel different about Russia in my lifetime

Freddie1980 said:
I wonder if they mean the whole region of just the boundaries set out in the Minsk agreements?
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If Russia isn’t careful they’ll not only lose this war, but Crimea too.

teenwolf said:
when this is all over russia are screwed for a long long time
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Easily for my lifetime. It’ll be a long time until companies move back. They’ll have no money to replace any of these military loses.
 
MartinPrince said:
As much as I'd love to be wrong, knowing what I know of Russians and their mentality, I can't see Putin being ousted anytime soon. He is just beloved in parts of Russia, especially among the older generation.
The contradiction is that most people don't want a war with the Ukraine but they will still support Putin because he is the strong man that Russian needs.

Who else is going to ride around on a horse bare chested?

I don't think it so much of Putin loosing the plot, after all this has been in the works since 2014 and isn't totally out of keeping with what Russians have done previously when 'threatened' by NATO expansion. I think this is more a case of the big gamble not paying off. Russia really did not expect this push back from the rest of the world/E.U., especially as it supplies much of the gas to the E.U. and we hardly did anything of substance when they annexed Crimea or when they supported the separatists in the Donbas or when Russian equipment downed flight MH17 over Ukraine.

Though now that the **** has truly hit the fan I still think they will tuff it out with Putin in charge. What clever and ruthless leaders do is to make sure there is no natural successor in key positions, that everybody can rally around to make an overthrow easier. (A bit like what Boris has done now. ;))
Click to expand...

Which I guess begs the question , just how far will Putin go. If the msm is to be believed, Ukraine is giving the Russians a right pasting, thousands and thousands of Russian troops killed, hundreds of armour destroyed, dozens upon dozens of aircraft shot down. If nobody internally is going to oust Putin and we assume that Putin isnt the sort of man who is simply going to take peace and withdraw back to Russia with his tail between his legs in front of the watching world...then just how far will he go.
 
0007 said:
*Kremlin: Russian Military Action Will Stop ‘In A Moment’ If Ukraine Meets Conditions - RTRS
https://www.reuters.com/world/kreml...will-stop-moment-if-ukraine-meets-2022-03-07/

Summary of the RTRS link:
*Kremlin Spokesman Says Ukraine Must Amend Constitution and Reject Claims to Enter Any Bloc
*Ukraine Must Recognise Crimea As Russian, and Donetsk and Lugansk As Independent States
*If These Conditions Are Met, Then Russian Military Action Will ‘Stop in a Moment’ – Spokesman
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If true it has to be considered. Putin won't stop util he can demonstrate some sort of victory. This land grab would allow that.

Ukraine should not surrender but both they, NATO and the EU now have to realise they are a buffer state between Russia.

No it's not a fair outcome and it has come at huge cost to all sides but realisticly, if the Russians behave, this is the only way out without further escalation
 
CaptainRAVE said:
This war has made me appreciate a number of things:

- our own security

- the impressive logistics of when the US went into Iraq and Afghanistan

- why my grandmother said to never trust Germans having lived through the war. I’m not sure I’ll ever feel different about Russia in my lifetime



If Russia isn’t careful they’ll not only lose this war, but Crimea too.



Easily for my lifetime. It’ll be a long time until companies move back. They’ll have no money to replace any of these military loses.
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Agree with most of that.

This war shows the dangers of a system where all power lies with one (possibly deranged?) individual. It really does show the worth of checks and balances in a Democratic system.

A small positive, but an important one, in my opinion.
 
gizmoy2k said:
If true it has to be considered. Putin won't stop util he can demonstrate some sort of victory. This land grab would allow that.

Ukraine should not surrender but both they, NATO and the EU now have to realise they are a buffer state between Russia.

No it's not a fair outcome and it has come at huge cost to all sides but realisticly, if the Russians behave, this is the only way out without further escalation
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It may atleast bring an end to the conflict but I assume it won't be enough for Russia. Russia wont want an independent Ukraine heavily militarizing. They've proven they're a match for Russian forces and continued Western support/supply would be expected and any Pro-Russian sentiment has been wiped out.

I can't imagine Ukraine would agree to demilitarize. Would leave them sitting ducks for a second land grab.
 
*Russia’s Putin Discusses Ukraine With European Council President Michel – RIA Cites Kremlin
*Putin Urges Europe to Pressure Kyiv, Make It Respect Humanitarian Law – IFAX
*Grossi of the IAEA Claims That a Small Neutron Source Was Destroyed at Kharkov.
*Ukrainian Navy Forces Defending Odessa Region Hit Russian Ship – Ukraine’s Navy Says
https://twitter.com/NordnetAxel/status/1500812516821291008
https://twitter.com/fxmacro/status/1500812719653629956
https://twitter.com/PriapusIQ/status/1500813467338616843
https://twitter.com/PriapusIQ/status/1500813777612296196
(most of these accounts are BBG/Eikon relays)
 
gizmoy2k said:
If true it has to be considered. Putin won't stop util he can demonstrate some sort of victory. This land grab would allow that.

Ukraine should not surrender but both they, NATO and the EU now have to realise they are a buffer state between Russia.

No it's not a fair outcome and it has come at huge cost to all sides but realisticly, if the Russians behave, this is the only way out without further escalation
Click to expand...

Agreed. And no mentioned of regime change, so this seems like it could be a (relatively) 'ok' outcome for Ukraine, even though in reality it's total ####.
 
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