Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

potatolord · 9 Mar 2022 at 19:57

DXP55 said:
Have you been watching reruns of "Yes Prime minister"

The older I get, the more truth I see in Yes, Minister.

Tombstone · 9 Mar 2022 at 19:59

robfosters said:
I was getting bored anyway

I certainly hope that the DLC turns out to be better than the base game is

Cyber-Mav · 9 Mar 2022 at 20:01

delta0 said:
Russia is about to default.

What does that even mean?

Energize · 9 Mar 2022 at 20:02

BowdonUK said:
Russia as asked to join NATO 4 times in the past. Putin personally asked, and old 'marble mouth' George Robertson replied they would have to apply like everyone else. The West as had many chances to bring Russia in to the fold.

There is an old saying about rivals, paraphrasing, "that its better to have them peeing out of your tent than them peeing in to your tent."

Russia is just completely incompatible with NATO, it does not share the values of a liberal democracy.

Cyber-Mav said:
What does that even mean?

The country is unable to pay its debts.

Cyber-Mav · 9 Mar 2022 at 20:04

BowdonUK said:
Russia as asked to join NATO 4 times in the past. Putin personally asked, and old 'marble mouth' George Robertson replied they would have to apply like everyone else. The West as had many chances to bring Russia in to the fold.

There is an old saying about rivals, paraphrasing, "that its better to have them peeing out of your tent than them peeing in to your tent."

Its and exclusive club, not any old riff raff can get in

ubersonic · 9 Mar 2022 at 20:04

Shamikebab said:
Wasn't it heavily backed by the people?

The main problem with environmentalists is: They are adamant they don't want fossil fuels, They are adamant they don't want nuclear power, and they don't want to acknowledge the reality that they have to pick at least one. German's decision to wind down it's nuclear power and become dependant on Russia was indeed backed heavily by the people, but the people were idiots, and the politicians decided just to pander to the idiots for the sake of votes.

Cyber-Mav said:
Its and exclusive club, not any old riff raff can get in

In fairness having Russia in your lets gang up on Russia club would be quite problematic xD

That's why they were originally told no and so had to form the Warsaw pact club instead.

Mr Jack · 9 Mar 2022 at 20:04

Energize said:
Russia is just completely incompatible with NATO, it does not share the values of a liberal democracy.

Look up the countries that have been NATO. It was never about liberal democracy.

Cyber-Mav · 9 Mar 2022 at 20:06

Energize said:
The country is unable to pay its debts.

Then what happens? Is it like a car loan you dont pay and just steal the car and since your in a different country at war the repo man cant get to you?
Sounds like a good thing to me but i dont know jack about how it works.

teenwolf · 9 Mar 2022 at 20:06

robfosters said:
I was getting bored anyway

ubersonic · 9 Mar 2022 at 20:07

Mr Jack said:
I look forward to your eloquent and detailed explanation of how a couple of hundred years of economic theory is wrong.

In fairness you were making the outlandish/counterintuitive statement, the onus should be on you to provide backing not on him to refute it.

Maple Leaf · 9 Mar 2022 at 20:07

potatolord said:
It really does show just how terrible Russian government has been for centuries that a country so rich in land and resources has people who are so poor.

Putin is the new Tsar, the oligarchs are like the patrician families of Rome. Their wealth is tied to the most important things in Russia like; oil, gas, metals, wheat and many other things that are always needed and are relatively plentiful there. If you have a monopoly on any of these things then you can never be poor. The sort of power-broking and largesse he is accustomed to would be recognised by a Baron under William the Conqueror or Edward I.

It's also rather like the proto-Germanic and Anglo-Saxon society structure described in Beowulf and the Sagas. An all-powerful Lord dispenses land and resources to his followers, who in return are expected to give up their lives for him. No wonder Putin is so brutal in warfare - his mind really is medieval!

Energize · 9 Mar 2022 at 20:10

Mr Jack said:
Look up the countries that have been NATO. It was never about liberal democracy.

Not primarily no, the countries are not a perfect match for that, but Russia is just completely at odds with NATO.

ubersonic · 9 Mar 2022 at 20:11

banbom44 said:
Everybody was praising Germany for sending weapons did you see the stuff they sent some 1960's old soviet crap and the anti tank missiles are basic as well basically RPG's while we are sending state of the art stuff they have done bugger all just like the French.

Germany sent 1000 anti tank rockets plus 500 stingers among other stuff, that's the ability to kill 1000 Russian tanks and 500 Russian helicopters, it's hardly nothing.

The Soviet stuff you're referring too is 2700 Soviet surface to air missiles, similar to what Ukraine forces are trained to use and also good enough to take out Russian helicopters, transports bombers, ground attack, etc.

Energize · 9 Mar 2022 at 20:13

ubersonic said:
Germany sent 1000 anti tank rockets plus 500 stingers among other stuff, that's the ability to kill 1000 Russian tanks and 500 Russian helicopters, it's hardly nothing.

Yeah, stinger missiles are a 1980's US weapon in current widespread use lol, hardly "60's soviet crap".

Mr Jack · 9 Mar 2022 at 20:15

ubersonic said:
In fairness you were making the outlandish/counterintuitive statement, the onus should be on you to provide backing not on him to refute it.

Really? Tell me, is North Korea or South Korea better off? Don't be simple.

ubersonic · 9 Mar 2022 at 20:22

Mr Jack said:
Really? Tell me, is North Korea or South Korea better off? Don't be simple.

I'm not sure asking random questions counts as providing evidence to back up your statement.

But in answer South Korea is better off than North Korea (who are dependant on aid from China), which kinda shoots holes in your argument, not sure that's what you were going for? :S

Still waiting for this explanation on why being self sufficient makes a country weaker not stronger.

Mr Jack · 9 Mar 2022 at 20:24

ubersonic said:
But in answer South Korea is better off than North Korea (who are dependant on aid from China), which kinda shoots holes in your argument, not sure that's what you were going for? :S

Does South Korea or North Korea do more external trade? Stop being silly.

chrismscotland · 9 Mar 2022 at 20:25

Energize said:
Russia is just completely incompatible with NATO, it does not share the values of a liberal democracy.

The country is unable to pay its debts.

"Liberal Democracy"? - I give you Turkey, Poland, Hungary hell the UK is barely a liberal democracy any more

chaparral · 9 Mar 2022 at 20:26

Friday going be a cold night

potatolord · 9 Mar 2022 at 20:29

Maple Leaf said:
Putin is the new Tsar, the oligarchs are like the patrician families of Rome. Their wealth is tied to the most important things in Russia like; oil, gas, metals, wheat and many other things that are always needed and are relatively plentiful there. If you have a monopoly on any of these things then you can never be poor. The sort of power-broking and largesse he is accustomed to would be recognised by a Baron under William the Conqueror or Edward I.

It's also rather like the proto-Germanic and Anglo-Saxon society structure described in Beowulf and the Sagas. An all-powerful Lord dispenses land and resources to his followers, who in return are expected to give up their lives for him. No wonder Putin is so brutal in warfare - his mind really is medieval!

Hehe, I can't really disagree with any of that.