Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

Status
Not open for further replies.
Some interesting analysis by Justin Bronk on why NATO should stay out of the fight. Its a long video but he covers this question in the last 7 minutes or so. I hope he's right about everything he mentions.

 
I wonder if this desperation is going to result in some very heavy or chemical bombs used. They’re not doing well and I’m glad they’re getting their arses kicked but we all know that they’ve got bombs that could wipe the whole city out if they get desperate.

my opinion is no, i think zelensky talking today about not joining NATO shows that Ukraine leaders are feeling it now
 
This is a problem as the standard version of the T-80 which they use was designed for defence not offence, and so while it's repurposed helicopter engine is great for operating at down to -40 while defending Russia against a NATO invasion it's terrible for actually invading anywhere due to dismal fuel consumption.

Goes for a large amount of Russian kit - designed to operate on home territory logistics, facing NATO forces in a total war scenario with little consideration for friend or foe or having to operate in an environment where they can't just target stuff indiscriminately.

Which is probably why Russian civil air traffic is giving the borders a very wide berth :s
 
There are numerous factors that all came together to result in Russia's current poor tank situation, but here's a few:

(1) Russia spent most of the time since the fall of the USSR bankrupt, as a result of taking on all of the USSR's debt in exchange for being internationally recognised as it's successor state (thus inheriting UN seat/etc). This meant that until the last 10 years they couldn't afford to maintain the tanks they had let alone develop new ones properly. The first post-USSR tank they have unveiled is the T-14 Armata and they currently only have two prototypes. All of their other "new" tanks are 30+ year old Soviet designs with features from the 90s/00s bolted on.

(2) The USSR spent the better part of it's last decade going bankrupt, this means that in that time tank development stalled and was downgraded for budget reasons, the knock on effect being the tank programs Russia inherited were already stalled/slowing compared to western development. In example, they had three tank families, the T-64 (high end tried and tested design that was never exported), the T-72 (cheaper/weaker alternative to the T-64 that was designed for export and to boost the USSRs tank numbers) and the T-80 (based on the T-64, advanced tank designed to replace the T-64 as the USSR's top tank).

However
, due to the aforementioned imminent bankruptcy of the USSR they decided to end development of the T-64/T-80 and focus entirely on the T-72 as that was the cheapest option. This is the program Russia inherited and why they had no choice but to continue the development of just the T-72 for a long time, this resulted in the T-72BU, which Russia renamed the T-90 in the early nineties in order to try and hide the fact their best tank of the 90s/00s was actually a design from the 70's and the USSRs third best tank.

(3) Because Ukraine was now a separate country and that was where the USSR's best tanks were designed/built, this meant that Russia no longer had access to the T-64 factory so couldn't get parts effectively, this meant they had no choice but to sell/scrap most of their T-64 tanks despite them being superior to the stock of T-72 they inherited (many of which they are now using in Ukraine).

In addition the diesel engine T-80UD tanks were all produced in Ukraine so Russia can no longer maintain/replace the engines in these tanks (many of which have been cannibalised so their improved turrets can be placed on older T-80s). This is a problem as the standard version of the T-80 which they use was designed for defence not offence, and so while it's repurposed helicopter engine is great for operating at down to -40 while defending Russia against a NATO invasion it's terrible for actually invading anywhere due to dismal fuel consumption.

----

So basically, Russia only really has at it's disposal:

  • Old Soviet T-72 tanks that have been poorly maintained.
  • Old Soviet T-72 tanks with newer bits bolted on that have also been poorly maintained.
  • Old Soviet T-80 tanks that have been poorly maintained and are really not designed for invading anywhere but they have to be used in order to beef up the numbers.
  • Some updated T-72 tanks built in the 90s/00s with a T-90 label taped on (which already had their flaws exposed by Syrian rebels with improvised weapons).
So there you have it, hope the explanation wasn't too long.


Same thing in other sectors

they are still sending astronauts and satellites up using Soviet era rockets while US companies are building brand new designs every day. Even without this war, Russias space agency is busy going broke because SpaceX is stealing all its business, the Soviet rockets just can't compete in price even though they only pay their staff 10% of what space x staff get
 
Definitely, China are there just lying in wait biding their time. If NATO has to act against Russia, China would ally up with Russia straight away. Then the stage for WW3 would be set.

China shares an authoritarian style of govt with Russia that has a dislike and distrust of Western liberal democracy but other than that they're worlds apart economically and culturally China isn't too impressed with the way Russia is smashing up Ukraine like a bull in a china shop and they had good relations with Ukraine. Taiwan aside they're much more subtle about empire building they do deals in poor countries where they build roads or some other infrastructure but charge high repayments for it if you can't pay, no problem we'll just accept that you transfer X amount of land or sea port or some other piece of collateral, much smarter and doesn't involve bombing the place to bits. They've also got their own agenda which Russia would do well to be more aware of or they may find their threat comes not from the west but from the opposite end of the country.
 
Wonder if poland etc will leave nato and band together against russia to avoid dragging NATO in in. Thereby almost giving Putin what he wants.
 
Definitely, China are there just lying in wait biding their time. If NATO has to act against Russia, China would ally up with Russia straight away. Then the stage for WW3 would be set.

China is an economic super power it wouldn't want to cut itself off from the world like this they'd lose everything Xi has spent his time building. And for what? Backing a failed state that could never repay the favour?

Russia on the otherhand has an economy comparable to the state of Texas..
 
China is an economic super power it wouldn't want to cut itself off from the world like this they'd lose everything Xi has spent his time building. And for what? Backing a failed state that could never repay the favour?

Russia on the otherhand has an economy comparable to the state of Texas..

Funny how times change.

* 1949: 'Communism can never work, Russia and China will fall!'
* 1990: 'See? The USSR is breaking up and she's turning to capitalism! China is next.'
* 2000: 'Hmm, China is still going strong and now she makes all our stuff. How did that happen?'
* 2022: 'Oh ****, China is an economic superpower and she's already bought half of Africa!!'

Somehow, China defied the odds.
 
Funny how times change.

* 1949: 'Communism can never work, Russia and China will fall!'
* 1990: 'See? The USSR is breaking up and she's turning to capitalism! China is next.'
* 2000: 'Hmm, China is still going strong and now she makes all our stuff. How did that happen?'
* 2022: 'Oh ****, China is an economic superpower and she's already bought half of Africa!!'

Somehow, China defied the odds.

You forgot China between 1950 and 1980s: look how we eat cockroaches for dinner, We stand in line for for 5 days waiting for rice and they give us cockroach

The country WAS dying and failing to feed itself under communism (China was one of the poorest countries on this planet for several decades), it wasn't until they introduced capitalist market reforms and trade that they started making money to buy food.


If you don't believe me, next time you meet someone from China who's aged around 60 or 70 or 80 now, go ask them what food they ate when they were 20 or 30 or 40 years old living in China
 
Last edited:
So wait
All of China and its vast regions could only produce cockroaches. And rice after a 5 day queue. . . . . .

I know several Chinese people.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom