Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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silversurfer

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Malevolence said:
Apparently Putin has gone full on paranoid Hitler mode and is incandescent with rage. Not only because of the sheer incompetence of his military but mainly due to how our intelligence services seem to know everything the Russians are going to do before they even know themselves.
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He is a victim of his own tactics. Apparently the military is undermined deliberately to stop them ever opposing or unsurping the dictator hence they are quite awful and corrupt

Capture of a twitter thread giving some perspective on that
https://imgur.com/gallery/7yLDBCL


In regards to Stalin, it seems like a repeat though I never studied that part of history we did Weimar Germany but Stalin attacked (murdered even) his military command before ww2 hence they were weakened.
 

dlockers

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silversurfer said:
He is a victim of his own tactics. Apparently the military is undermined deliberately to stop them ever opposing or unsurping the dictator hence they are quite awful and corrupt

Capture of a twitter thread giving some perspective on that
https://imgur.com/gallery/7yLDBCL


In regards to Stalin, it seems like a repeat though I never studied that part of history we did Weimar Germany but Stalin attacked (murdered even) his military command before ww2 hence they were weakened.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure how much of this is true but it is an interesting read.
 

andybird123

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potatolord said:
That's not true, and by a long way.

Germany murdered around 6 million in the death camps. They murdered another 3 million or so Soviet POWs, mostly through a policy of deliberate starvation.

The GULAG death toll under stalin was around 2 million.

If the Soviet famines get thrown into the mix, then it's fair to include all excess deaths in German occupied areas- and their total would morre or less double.
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Germany murdered 9 million then by your numbers?
A quick Google suggests Stalin killed 20 million in labor/concentration camps, so yes Russia comes off worse in this comparison.
 

garnett

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robfosters said:
I think you’ll find a lot of non racist decent folk actually would agree on the self flagellation over history part. How long do we have to grovel, beg forgiveness and feel awful about ourselves over something which none of us had anything to do with.
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That's a strawman representation of my point. I was highlighting the inconsistency. I'm sure you will find decent people that argue for one approach, and decent people that argue for the other approach. But the people you find that argue for one approach sometimes, and the other approach at other times? - They're not decent.

If you believe we shouldn't respect history, fine. Just be sure to apply that approach fairly, across the board.
 

Grim5

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Hook said:
No, this could be why Russians has a high support for the war - In richer Moscow area :) They see themselves as superior to the southern/eastern people in Russia, dagistan etc etc.
Putin was and is signing up (forceing) cannon fodder in the really poor areas of the Country, in the field the military sends them in first, they're cannon fodder, the "superior slavic" Russians sends in the trash first.
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Reminds me of the Roman's, they would send in slaves as cannon fodder
 

potatolord

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andybird123 said:
Germany murdered 9 million then by your numbers?
A quick Google suggests Stalin killed 20 million in labor/concentration camps, so yes Russia comes off worse in this comparison.
Click to expand...

That Google is out by an order of magnitud. Edit: as regards Gulag deaths

Edit: I've just checked and it seems there is a huge range of excess mortality under stalin, depending on who you believe.
 
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NickK

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potatolord said:
That's not true, and by a long way.

Germany murdered around 6 million in the death camps. They murdered another 3 million or so Soviet POWs, mostly through a policy of deliberate starvation.

The GULAG death toll under stalin was around 2 million.

If the Soviet famines get thrown into the mix, then it's fair to include all excess deaths in German occupied areas- and their total would morre or less double.
Click to expand...

i’m not sure you can suggest murdering 2M people vs 6M is less of a war crime..
 

delta0

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Head of Russian central bank tried to resign and Putin said no.

NATO talking a lot about chemical weapons. Russia also talking again about nukes. Seems like Russia is going to escalate again.
 

Nerusy

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Regarding Stalin repressions one would need to do more than just a quick google. The question is highly politicised (read: twisted for propaganda) due to cold war. Lately a lot of people with little history knowledge like to write that Stalin was worse than Hitler or Communism was worse than Nazi ideology. All these claims are not really grounded in historic reality but rather just an emotional response to current events.

Furthermore, the whole argument where killing more people makes something worse is also a bit pointless. Like Stalin repressions killed like 2-3m without counting famines. That's bad enough, you do not have to have more deaths under your belt to conclude that such a form of governance is not good. The main point is that he was killing people to achieve political goals - dekulakization, great purges, deportations.

Hitler was killing people just for being born a certain ethnicity. Not only jews but also slavs and various other ethnicities were considered sub-human and hence due to be exterminated through industrial machinery.

Including famines for Stalin we're looking at 7-10m and for Hitler, just for the damage he did to the Soviet Union we can see 10m civilians alone then what around 10 more million combatants and that's without going for jews and POWS exterminated in camps. Hitler did a lot more in a much shorter time than Stalin and for far more sinister reason.

And to get back on topic. I highly doubt that head of Russian bank wanted to resign because that's not what a responsible economist would do in such dire times. This is not the time to jump ship, whether you despise the regime or not she is crucial in stabilising an economy on which 145m of people depend.
 

Jono8

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delta0 said:
Head of Russian central bank tried to resign and Putin said no.

NATO talking a lot about chemical weapons. Russia also talking again about nukes. Seems like Russia is going to escalate again.
Click to expand...

The nuke talk is likely because that is the only threat Russia has left.

After seeing how they have handled Ukraine, any threat from them to Nato in terms of conventional warfare is utterly laughable. Also, economicly, the west is extremely united and will be able to counter/live with anything Russia does.

All they have for posturing is their nuclear weapons. They are a laughing stock otherwise.
 

potatolord

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NickK said:
i’m not sure you can suggest murdering 2M people vs 6M is less of a war crime..
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Well, technically, the GULAG deaths are not a war crime.

Anyway, I'm going too far off topic here.

Will be interesting to see how POWs are being handled in this conflict. There must be some, but I haven't seen much about that.
 
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