Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

Status
Not open for further replies.
The Running Man said:
If Putin joined Nato and then decided to invade Ukraine, how would it change anything?

Maybe Nato Russia could have blocked ukraine from joining Nato themselves.
Click to expand...

That is an interesting point.

Though from my understanding Putin back then was seen as a protege of Boris Yeltsin, so was all for moving away from the old Soviet Union.

I think in 1991 the West missed a big opportunity to bring Russia in from the cold. I think in 32 years since the collapse of the SU we'd have entangled them with the West, something Putin (and previous leaders too) wanted. The whole threat of NATO wouldn't have been a factor as Russia itself would have integrated with NATO.

I suspect the main reason for not being positive towards Russia in 1991 was because America needed an enemy, a bogey man. It won't do it with China because 1. trade and industrial connections, and 2. now the US is concerned it might get slapped back for real.
 
BowdonUK said:
That is an interesting point.

Though from my understanding Putin back then was seen as a protege of Boris Yeltsin, so was all for moving away from the old Soviet Union.

I think in 1991 the West missed a big opportunity to bring Russia in from the cold. I think in 32 years since the collapse of the SU we'd have entangled them with the West, something Putin (and previous leaders too) wanted. The whole threat of NATO wouldn't have been a factor as Russia itself would have integrated with NATO.

I suspect the main reason for not being positive towards Russia in 1991 was because America needed an enemy, a bogey man. It won't do it with China because 1. trade and industrial connections, and 2. now the US is concerned it might get slapped back for real.
Click to expand...

Not sure about that.

Putin has always been an old school kgb/fsb type guy. They (the leadership) don't want to join the western vision of democracy.

Joining nato would mean they can do exactly what they are doing now but with impunity as any attack on Russia in retaliation would mean nato would have to back Russia...

Nato was a reaction to russia/the ussr ...
 
BowdonUK said:
That is an interesting point.

Though from my understanding Putin back then was seen as a protege of Boris Yeltsin, so was all for moving away from the old Soviet Union.

I think in 1991 the West missed a big opportunity to bring Russia in from the cold. I think in 32 years since the collapse of the SU we'd have entangled them with the West, something Putin (and previous leaders too) wanted. The whole threat of NATO wouldn't have been a factor as Russia itself would have integrated with NATO.

I suspect the main reason for not being positive towards Russia in 1991 was because America needed an enemy, a bogey man. It won't do it with China because 1. trade and industrial connections, and 2. now the US is concerned it might get slapped back for real.
Click to expand...

It does feel like some sections of the US government and military continued in the cold war "anti russia" mindset. That might have led to missed opportunities.

Whether the Russian government was willing to make the change required to move to a more modern, open economy and society is an unanswerable question. The looting of state assets and resources by bent politicians and oligarchs suggests that was probably never realistic.
 
https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...come-turkey-foreign-minister-says-2022-03-26/

March 26 (Reuters) - Russian oligarchs are welcome in Turkey but must abide by international law in order to do any business, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said on Saturday.

Turkey has strongly criticized Russia's invasion of Ukraine but opposes sanctions imposed by its NATO allies on principle.

"If Russian oligarchs ... or any Russian citizens want to visit Turkey of course they can," Cavusoglu said in response to a question at the Doha Forum international conference.
Click to expand...

Turkey playing both sides it seems, it wouldn't be so bad if they weren't a NATO member lol
 
Well exactly, that's why the EU would never allow turkey to join in a million years, despite what the likes of farage et. al. would have you belive.
Any EU member can veto a new applicant, and it's game over for the applicant.

But I suppose turkey is, or could be a sort of middle ground for discussion in this particular circumstance.
 
alchal said:
To be fair they closed the straight, sent loads of well used and needed drones and other equipment to fight the invaders.
Click to expand...

That's what I mean by playing both sides, they'll happily supply arms to Ukraine, block the straight, whilst also funding Russia through business, it's their choice as a free nation but you would think being a NATO member they would choose a side, the side that all other NATO members have chosen, it's just really odd to see
 
Seems like it is very likely Russia are pulling back to Donbas. I hope this is treated with a lot of caution until certain.
 
For anyone saying Trump never wanted to start any conflicts really need to look back at his presidency.

He was desperate to start a war with Iran, had to be talked down by his generals on more than one occasion.

It wouldnt have been a war as such more like a bombing campain on their nuclear assets reall but close enough.
 
delta0 said:
Seems like it is very likely Russia are pulling back to Donbas. I hope this is treated with a lot of caution until certain.
Click to expand...
I believe they are saying if he can take the Dombas region he can claim his huge victory.

Truth is more likely that he can't sustain the war with his losses so has decuided to pick one spot and take it like Crimea.

Can't see Ukrain letting this happen though, it would be as good as a defeat if they just let him take it.

If they do annex it into Russia whats to stop them re arming and coming back 3-4 years down the line and annexing another region, they could do this piece by piece over the next 20 years so it has to be stopped now.
 
bris said:
I believe they are saying if he can take the Dombas region he can claim his huge victory.

Truth is more likely that he can't sustain the war with his losses so has decuided to pick one spot and take it like Crimea.

Can't see Ukrain letting this happen though, it would be as good as a defeat if they just let him take it.

If they do annex it into Russia whats to stop them re arming and coming back 3-4 years down the line and annexing another region, they could do this piece by piece over the next 20 years so it has to be stopped now.
Click to expand...

that’s exactly what would happen. Ukraine should not back down. Kick them while they’re down.
 
Worry is that if Putin sees himself and his corrupt government going down the toilet then he'll interpret that as an 'existential threat' to Russia (because Putin IS Russia in his mind), and that's the one situation where full use of nuclear weapons is allowed under Russian constitution. He can't go quietly, not with war crime allegations levelled against him, a shattered economy, and increasing unpopularity at home. He knows he won't survive long if he reverses direction and removes his forces from Ukraine voluntarily, or even worse - they get thrown out. Difficult to spin that one into a Win, but Win or lose I really can't see any good outcome from this for Putin and he needs to be rapidly removed from power, but how to make that happen?
 
Even if Putin is going off the rails and thinks it is all going down the pan, surely he alone can't press the big red button.

Won't there be other's around, that would not allow that. Or are the majority of the same mindset
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom