They never turned up to fit my smart meter

[Nemiyen]

Please correct me if I am wrong as I hope at some point the pay back falls below the life span of the battery's if it hasn't already.

Your working out on battery storage and solar panels is probably what I came up with years ago but I'm now starting to think with the current prices, and further increases, it does start to work out much better now.

I'm sure years ago you were paid more than the electric was worth when you put back onto the grid which is why solar panels were worth it and companies paid you to put them on your house, just so more people got solar panels.

The issue is we need battery storage that's easy to fix or repair. We had a ups at work that failed and it got ripped out and replaced with a new one. I really wish I asked to keep the batteries as I'd have a decent amount of storage now! Yeah they were old and maybe only held 50 percent but most of them still worked. We replaced it because one of the batteries popped and took the ups out. My guess is we could have taken the last battery in the chain and put it in the space of the faulty one and it would be fine again! Live and learn!

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

It is a long time but another way to look at it is those that jumped on the smart meters early have had to install 1st gen, then fit 2nd gen and then in a matter of years fit a 3rd gen. Personally I would rather just skip all that until I see a real benefit. When smarts improve enough I will jump aboard. As meter readers go how many people know some of the Smarts will only last 11 years? Which is rather short compared to dumb meters.



That’s got little to do with SM’s. We don’t need a SM to be on an off-peak tariff to benefit from charging a battery up overnight.

To be honest I need to redo the math's on those battery systems. Battery storage systems are not really that beneficial at least last time I ran the real numbers which was many years ago so this might not be true anymore. By real numbers I mean not the inflated marketing numbers solar panel and battery selling companies often use. Anyway by the time we have saved enough money to cover the cost of the battery its time to replace the battery which leads to a never-ending cycle of costing more money than we save. I do love the idea behind the battery systems it’s just, I cannot get the math's for them to work long term. Though that was before the current big energy price changes.

Has anyone got the math's to show a benefit from battery systems factoring in the life span of the battery and replacing the battery's over time? Part of the problem I have is not only would I need a full new battery system but I believe possibly a new inventor as well which bumps up the pay back time past the life span of the battery.

Please correct me if I am wrong as I hope at some point the pay back falls below the life span of the battery's if it hasn't already.

I believe although happy to be corrected you do need to be on a smart meter to get a tariff that makes sense to charge batteries. I dont believe economy 7 would make much sense, but its possible I guess. Otherwise you have to have a SM in order to be able to get one of the reduced tariffs.
Eco 7 is priced similarly (although worse from BG who is my supplier) to smart tariffs, and they will typically install a SM as your meter anyway as you need a dual meter to do Eco 7. (And eco 7 meters were well renown for being problematic)

Batteries do make sense, but you need to understand your usage. Oops I wasn't taking the **** there, I mean you genuinely do.
Numbers I played with put batteries at slightly faster payback than solar itself. They have the advantage that they are more predictable, in how they will generate their savings.
Eg if you dont have solar and know that you use 10KWH a day and most of that is outside the cheap charging window then you can use all that a battery will provide upto say 9.5kwh. You need to check the max discharge though, they differ so a 9kwh may only be 8.2 usable for example.
Then its simple, multiply the number of units per day usable by the difference in unit rate and your daily saving.

There are a couple of other factors that having a Sm or at least good estimates on, do you know for sure that you dont use a lot in a narrow window which could exceed the max battery discharge rate, and if it does, is your usage still able to use all the battery usage.
Then you need to make the assumption of the price differential remaining or moving in either direction.
IE run a few scenarios.

IE you need to know some basics on usage, total and when, an idea what your peak usage is, and for how long.

Solar however changes the dynamics of that, do you have excess that you export now, if so you can save that at strong generating times rather than charging from the grid.

They certainly wont be scrap either at payback time, check the manufacturers sheet for minimum lifecycles, or guarantees on remaining capacity etc They arent all the same so you need to be able to adapt your calcs.

Oh and meters have always needed to be replaced, so its only partially wasted to have updated to SMs. Mine for example is nearly 15 years old and they are generally recommended on 10-25 years so pretty much due now.

Oh you mention inventors, I assume you mean invertors. They are actually semi frequent replacements of solar anyway, often overlooked but can and do go wrong. One of the advantages of the leading edge in that if one goes down the rest of the panels still function.

 

[Troop]

All I'll say is a Smart Meter gave me access to the OctopusGO tariff, 5/15p
Using a self build Lifepo4 battery and the go tariff, my electricity cost for yesterday 0.15P.

Over 2KW of that was at 5p rate to heat a full immersion tank of hot water.

 

[Werewolf]

2033 - seriously, that’s another 11 years of worry!

And by that time many of the first gen meters will likely start to need replacing anyway as they'll be hitting 20 years old.

On a slightly different note I thought they were going to keep at least one of the 2g bands running due to it's use in industrial and signalling equipment. IIRC smart meters, the railway and various other major infrastructure uses where you didn't need high bandwidth but a more reliable connection than 3/4/5g can easily provide due to the frequency used.

 

[SDK^]

It is a long time but another way to look at it is those that jumped on the smart meters early have had to install 1st gen, then fit 2nd gen and then in a matter of years fit a 3rd gen. Personally I would rather just skip all that until I see a real benefit. When smarts improve enough I will jump aboard. As meter readers go how many people know some of the Smarts will only last 11 years? Which is rather short compared to dumb meters.

We have a gen 1 SM and it works fine with Octous Go

That’s got little to do with SM’s. We don’t need a SM to be on an off-peak tariff to benefit from charging a battery up overnight.

To be honest I need to redo the math's on those battery systems. Battery storage systems are not really that beneficial at least last time I ran the real numbers which was many years ago so this might not be true anymore. By real numbers I mean not the inflated marketing numbers solar panel and battery selling companies often use. Anyway by the time we have saved enough money to cover the cost of the battery its time to replace the battery which leads to a never-ending cycle of costing more money than we save. I do love the idea behind the battery systems it’s just, I cannot get the math's for them to work long term. Though that was before the current big energy price changes.

Has anyone got the math's to show a benefit from battery systems factoring in the life span of the battery and replacing the battery's over time? Part of the problem I have is not only would I need a full new battery system but I believe possibly a new inventor as well which bumps up the pay back time past the life span of the battery.

Please correct me if I am wrong as I hope at some point the pay back falls below the life span of the battery's if it hasn't already.

I’m just getting solar and battery storage installed.

Payback depends on your energy use. For us, having the battery means we can use most of the generated solar power in the summer and not need to export it at a loss. I.e. without a battery you can’t store the excess solar energy from the day, to use through the night, so I would need to export it at 3p, and then use grid power which costs more than the export price.
Also the battery can be used to store solar energy to heat our hot water in the early hours, saving on gas costs.

In the winter when solar is practically generating nothing the battery can be charged at 7.5p kWh to save using energy through the day at 30p.

 

[Nemiyen]

We have a gen 1 SM and it works fine with Octous Go



I’m just getting solar and battery storage installed.

Payback depends on your energy use. For us, having the battery means we can use most of the generated solar power in the summer and not need to export it at a loss. I.e. without a battery you can’t store the excess solar energy from the day, to use through the night, so I would need to export it at 3p, and then use grid power which costs more than the export price.
Also the battery can be used to store solar energy to heat our hot water in the early hours, saving on gas costs.

In the winter when solar is practically generating nothing the battery can be charged at 7.5p kWh to save using energy through the day at 30p.

I wonder what those night charges were say 2 years ago?

The night charges seem worth it for the battery storage if you can fill the thing in the 4 hours you get at the cheaper rates?

Couple that with solar panels to keep it topped up during the day and it might be worth while.

I'm guessing the prices of these things are going to rocket as demand for them picks up too.

 

[SDK^]

The night charges seem worth it for the battery storage if you can fill the thing in the 4 hours you get at the cheaper rates?

Yep, should charge to full easily - a 10 kWh battery being able to charge at 3.5 kWh

 

[Pottsey]

We have a gen 1 SM and it works fine with Octous Go



I’m just getting solar and battery storage installed.

Payback depends on your energy use. For us, having the battery means we can use most of the generated solar power in the summer and not need to export it at a loss. I.e. without a battery you can’t store the excess solar energy from the day, to use through the night, so I would need to export it at 3p, and then use grid power which costs more than the export price.
Also the battery can be used to store solar energy to heat our hot water in the early hours, saving on gas costs.

In the winter when solar is practically generating nothing the battery can be charged at 7.5p kWh to save using energy through the day at 30p.

Just been reading up on the costs of battery's and it seems like they are better for new installs over fitting to older installs. It looks like battery's are not cost effective for me As my solar install is older I am on a decent FIT payment which complicates matters. Any energy going to charge battery's is not making its way to the grid meter to earn FIT payments plus adding battery's might invalidates FIT payment. Plus I need to replace the invertor. I think my only option at the moment is to wait till the FIT ends and hope the invertor lasts that long. Then when the invertor dies replace it with a new one that supports battery's. My FIT is
Generation Tariff Unit Rate: 14.38 p/kWh + Export Tariff Unit Rate: 4.77 p/kWh until 2034. If I have this right with those numbers a battery system will take me 15 to 20 years to break even.

 

[chrcoluk]

The Octopus tariff was the innovation.
People forget now, but the monthly fixed bills were also innovation that came from outside the big players, its now 30 years or so ago so people forget. At that point it was normal to pay in arrears what ever amount you owed. And whilst some people prefer it, the majority like to budget same amounts monthly.

Meters have to be changed at some point anyway.

Its not handwavy to need to understand the data to know where to start. A dumb meter unless your constantly reading it is impossible to track your high usage down to a specific point in the day, or in real time.
Its literally the first stage in being able to materially affect your usage.
As I said you can do this with a dumb meter but you need an energy monitoring device.

Really we are at stage 1 enabling.
Stage 2 implementation right now is only for people with EVs/batteries really, once more tariff options AND smart devices happen you will seem more.
Eg your dishwasher and washing machine able to detect the pricing and switch on when the first cheaper rate is notified.

The octopus one is still availble, its agileoctopus https://octopus.energy/agile/
The opportunity is there now and its great if you can make it work. Its far less beneficial right now than it was due to the price cap.

I dont know if monthly fixed should be praised as a customer benefiting innovation, people have been fooled into paying in advance instead of in arrears and paying too much for most of the year.

The off peak tariffs are largely exclusive to EV owners from what I can see on octopus. They seem to be sponsored, else why make them exclusive to EV owners.

If they want to be truly great then they can release a less than 10p unit tariff for off peak, and still allow peak to be on the SVR rates. Plus actually make sure there is a way to see live usage outside of using a flimsy IHD that may not work if not commissioned properly. Should be an official octopus app to do what the IHD does.

 

[BigBoy]

@VersionMonkey The cost of maintaining and collecting data from smart meters is recovered via standing charge, the cost of installing is solely on the shoulders of the suppliers, a duel fuel install costs on average £400 this cost is all on the supplier and has to by agreement with suppliers and Ofgem come from the bottom line and not be incorporated into future charges.

I cannot find the link right now as to be honest I have a life, for me Metering is a Job one I have been involved in for over 20 years, look through the suppliers thread in Home/garden to find out my pedigree as I really cannot be bothered to go through it all again...

@Malt_Vinegar I'm intrigued as to why your install would require investment from yourself for your gas to be possible, the technology is available for me to install a set of meters 30 floors apart and them work. a 30year old gas meter may well be working well as you state but I doubt it is reading correctly. Gas batteries are Li-Po long life low draw designed to last between 7 and 10 years, and can be replaced without replacing the meter, or would you like us to hard wire your gas meter? I'm sure that will go down well.. Oh and for connections issues there is the Alt HAN co

@Pottsey SM cannot stop you making calls, modern mobile phones (from the last 10 years) all use 3g and above, a completely separate waveband from 2g and ZigBee no way that interaction is causing mobile phone issues.

@Mercenary Keyboard Warrior Eco 7 tariffs are not offered any more, and legacy non-smart meters are not produced any more. If you require a meter replacement due to fault you WILL be getting a smart meter, you no longer have a choice. Non smart meters are no longer compliant to the general metering code of practice unless you have a medical reason.

Let me clear a couple of things up..

1. Smart meters connect to the smart network by two ways, One being via 2g GPRS/GSM modem, the other by Long range radio link or WIPS type service. More info Here Comms hubs will require replacement before 2g/3g signals are cut off, ONLY the Comms hub. @Werewolf is correct that the 2g network in some areas will stay active until 2050 (iirc) due to industry requirements.
2. HAN the internal communications part between Electric meter, Gas meters and in home displays is done via ZigBee 2.4ghz and 868Mhz (868Mhz is only supported on Duel band comms. hubs) url=https://www.smartme.co.uk/home-area-network.html]More info Here[/url]. I have never seen or heard of any issues with 2.4Ghz networks in the home or interference with other ZigBee systems, other than users putting IHD's on top of microwaves or next to routers..
3. Harder to switch suppliers Hell no, Far easier, Old supplier says to DCC not my customer anymore, new supplier says Oh that's my customer now, job done. it is literally that easy, the hardest part it getting both suppliers to agree that one has let you go and the other has picked you up, although this has changed significantly since all the smaller suppliers have been going bust.
4. Meters Unreliable, Well, From my own experience of how often I visit some customers, the user tends to be the problem not the hardware. only had two failed meters in the last 5 years of installing SMETS2, less than 1%
5. Signal, this is a very specific problem based on many factors, Geo location being the biggest, House construction being the second largest and meter location being the third but not the last, the list is extensive. SM communications was based on a typically build 1980 home with outside meter boxes in locations next to each other but up to (with direct line of sight) 10 meters in open air. BUT we all know very few properties are built this way in fact that style of installation covers less than 20% of the housing market in the UK, so real world YES there are signal issues, this is not something that is going to be fixed over night. Your supplier has to attempt to connect to the comms hub every night at midnight for two weeks before it can be declared a comms issue and then passed to the DCC as such and the DCC then have 6 more weeks to see if they can make it work, after that they refer back to the network provider of the are the meter is in.
6. Benefits of smart metering, To be honest if you have common sense and know how to read a meter and how to give regular readings then there is little you can gain other than potential availability of smart tariffs that there are very few of at the moment. If you have solar PV/EV and battery storage then having a smart meter is a no brainer as most systems will integrate to provide maximum analytics.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I'm guessing the prices of these things are going to rocket as demand for them picks up too.

Possibly very short term, real world evidence is the opposite, massive demand triggers further learning / innovation curve and prices fall

Look at solar panels, now the panels are pennies compared to 30 years ago

I dont know if monthly fixed should be praised as a customer benefiting innovation, people have been fooled into paying in advance instead of in arrears and paying too much for most of the year.

The off peak tariffs are largely exclusive to EV owners from what I can see on octopus. They seem to be sponsored, else why make them exclusive to EV owners.

If they want to be truly great then they can release a less than 10p unit tariff for off peak, and still allow peak to be on the SVR rates. Plus actually make sure there is a way to see live usage outside of using a flimsy IHD that may not work if not commissioned properly. Should be an official octopus app to do what the IHD does.

As I said, many people want to be able to pay regular smaller amounts rather than infrequent large ones. Until the recent rises the majority thought this was better.
Im not sure how old you are, but I remember people complaining of large bills just landing that they had 2 weeks to pay.
Your not really paying in advance, partly to smooth the bill, your closer however to pay as you go.
Why should utils be payment in arrears when just about everything else is pay as you go or in advance.

@Mercenary Keyboard Warrior Eco 7 tariffs are not offered any more, and legacy non-smart meters are not produced any more. If you require a meter replacement due to fault you WILL be getting a smart meter, you no longer have a choice. Non smart meters are no longer compliant to the general metering code of practice unless you have a medical reason.

Thanks, I knew it was difficult and I thought it was basically impossible to get for the average user. I couldnt find a way for example, but I saw it was possible so toned down my you cant as I knew otherwise someone would find a fringe case.

 

[1pudding1]

Just been reading up on the costs of battery's and it seems like they are better for new installs over fitting to older installs. It looks like battery's are not cost effective for me As my solar install is older I am on a decent FIT payment which complicates matters. Any energy going to charge battery's is not making its way to the grid meter to earn FIT payments plus adding battery's might invalidates FIT payment. Plus I need to replace the invertor. I think my only option at the moment is to wait till the FIT ends and hope the invertor lasts that long. Then when the invertor dies replace it with a new one that supports battery's. My FIT is
Generation Tariff Unit Rate: 14.38 p/kWh + Export Tariff Unit Rate: 4.77 p/kWh until 2034. If I have this right with those numbers a battery system will take me 15 to 20 years to break even.

Hi, I've got the same setup and FiT as you. I think you've got a few things wrong. You will still earn FiT payments even if nothing goes back to the grid and it all goes to the batteries or you use it. I'm on a deemed 50% export, so even if I export 0% I still get paid as if I export 50% of what I've generated. I'm guessing you are too? Also, you get paid for what you've generated too at that 14.77p/kW, that wont change at all with any changes to what you export, even if you have an smart meter/export meter to actually measure exports.

You also wont need to replace the inverter. You need to get an AC coupled system, which means an extra inverter into which the batteries connect, and then that connects to the AC part of your home electrics. That inverter will detect when you're producing excess PV power and use it to charge the batteries. Nothing on the existing FiT system needs to be touched so all good.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

@Malt_Vinegar I'm intrigued as to why your install would require investment from yourself for your gas to be possible, the technology is available for me to install a set of meters 30 floors apart and them work. a 30year old gas meter may well be working well as you state but I doubt it is reading correctly. Gas batteries are Li-Po long life low draw designed to last between 7 and 10 years, and can be replaced without replacing the meter, or would you like us to hard wire your gas meter? I'm sure that will go down well..

I was told it would cost me over £1500 (I forget the exact price) to have my gas meter changed. I have letter here from SGN telling me that the meter position in my house is out of regulations (was installed this way before I owned the house, and was in line with regulations when it was installed)
As such they would have to cap my old pipe. Disconnect from the main, and run a new line from the main, dig up the front of my house, and then relocate the piping inside the house (not included in the above costs) to meet it.
So it's going to likely cost me multiple thousands to do so.
None of which they will pay for.
So frankly, I'm just going to leave it as it is, it's working fine and there are little to no benefits that will come close to justifying the costs of a smart meter.

 

[GreatAuk]

The Octopus tariff was the innovation.
Hmm I guess, seems like very few people are on it though and doesn't sound as responsive as the smart meter advertising said these sorts of rates would be. It's not a great innovation either given it only seems to benefit people with enough time and flexibility to move demand outside of peak periods, and enough demand (eg electric car, battery bank, storage heater etc) to make a big difference. If that rate is the big innovation allowed by smart meters then it seems like a massive waste that so few people are on it, and such a small proportion of the population can take advantage of it.

People forget now, but the monthly fixed bills were also innovation that came from outside the big players, its now 30 years or so ago so people forget. At that point it was normal to pay in arrears what ever amount you owed. And whilst some people prefer it, the majority like to budget same amounts monthly.
Personally never seen that as an 'innovation'. Just gives them an excuse to build up massive amounts of credit without paying the customer any interest... Funny how I've somehow always ended up being a few hundred pounds in credit whenever it comes to switching supplier, never in debit. Maybe it is an innovation, as some people will appreciate the predictable cost, for other people it's just an extra cost. More a 'change' than an 'innovation' in my books.

Meters have to be changed at some point anyway.
Indeed, and time will tell whether the lifespan of smart meters is better or worse. Still seems highly likely that smart meters will work out much more expensive due to the extra tech and need to pay for communication licences though. Also the wasted lifespan of old meters junked before their time was up.

Its not handwavy to need to understand the data to know where to start. A dumb meter unless your constantly reading it is impossible to track your high usage down to a specific point in the day, or in real time.
Its literally the first stage in being able to materially affect your usage.
As I said you can do this with a dumb meter but you need an energy monitoring device.
Does anyone actually do this though? Surely you could achieve the same level of understanding that 'oh I guess my oven uses quite a lot of power' with a leaflet or some adverts? I think most people understand that their home appliances use electricity. If I wanted to 'materially affect my usage' I don't need to check my smart meter to work out I can save power by turning the TV off or whatever. Can't help thinking a little leaflet listing how much power an average A rated appliance uses etc would be much more convenient than trying to work out how much of each hourly usage figure came from the fridge and how much was the washing machine etc. If I really wanted specifics then an energy monitoring device would be much better because I could plug it in to a specific plug to track a single appliance.

Really we are at stage 1 enabling.
Stage 2 implementation right now is only for people with EVs/batteries really, once more tariff options AND smart devices happen you will seem more.
Eg your dishwasher and washing machine able to detect the pricing and switch on when the first cheaper rate is notified.
Seems like a massive waste to have pushed through this smart meter scheme when the benefits are still theoretical for most people though. Just adds cost for no reason. I bought a dishwasher and washing machine in the past year, and as far as I'm aware they have no way of interfacing with a smart meter. If this 'stage 1 enabling' scheme was planned out properly then every appliance sold in the past 5 years should have been required to have smart meter integration features. I'm now going to have appliances for potentially the next 10 years which won't interface with my smart meter regardless of whether we enter 'stage 2'. It's all well and good for the (already wealthy) people with evs and batteries, but just a poorly planned extra expense for most people.

The octopus one is still availble, its agileoctopus https://octopus.energy/agile/
The opportunity is there now and its great if you can make it work. Its far less beneficial right now than it was due to the price cap.
Nice opportunity for those that can make it work, but I'm not convinced it will work well for many people at the moment unless they have large flexible loads like battery charging. Also, it seems that even if I did want to switch to it that tariff is not actually available to me because mine isn't gen2 or a 'secure' gen1. So I'd have to get my smart meter upgraded, without ever being able to use any of its smart features!

 

[BigBoy]

I was told it would cost me over £1500 (I forget the exact price) to have my gas meter changed. I have letter here from SGN telling me that the meter position in my house is out of regulations (was installed this way before I owned the house, and was in line with regulations when it was installed)
As such they would have to cap my old pipe. Disconnect from the main, and run a new line from the main, dig up the front of my house, and then relocate the piping inside the house (not included in the above costs) to meet it.
So it's going to likely cost me multiple thousands to do so.
None of which they will pay for.
So frankly, I'm just going to leave it as it is, it's working fine and there are little to no benefits that will come close to justifying the costs of a smart meter.

If the Install was so non compliant that it requires moving it's usually done for free, but that is dependant on transporter in your case that's SGN. I've had very little contact with SGN over the years but fairly sure they would move it for a minimal cost to yourself as it's a safety issue.

 

[Pottsey]

Hi, I've got the same setup and FiT as you. I think you've got a few things wrong. You will still earn FiT payments even if nothing goes back to the grid and it all goes to the batteries or you use it. I'm on a deemed 50% export, so even if I export 0% I still get paid as if I export 50% of what I've generated. I'm guessing you are too? Also, you get paid for what you've generated too at that 14.77p/kW, that wont change at all with any changes to what you export, even if you have an smart meter/export meter to actually measure exports.

You also wont need to replace the inverter. You need to get an AC coupled system, which means an extra inverter into which the batteries connect, and then that connects to the AC part of your home electrics. That inverter will detect when you're producing excess PV power and use it to charge the batteries. Nothing on the existing FiT system needs to be touched so all good.

You could be right I need to read up on this some more, in the back of my mind there is something about small print battery's being added in regards to FIT, I could be remembering wrong. Also I know I said installers overinflate the profit numbers and well some do. I was wrong to say all do. Just looked at my 2014 install. They estimated FIT £482 generation and FIT £80 export = £562 per year. Averaging out my numbers I hit £594.03 FIT per year (generation + export). They told me a 6 year payback period which I didn't believe at the time expecting it to be more like 8 years but factoring in further saving by using the electricity generated it has paid back already. Now to look up the Samil SR 4000TL-D high efficient inverter.

 

[chrcoluk]

I wonder what those night charges were say 2 years ago?

The night charges seem worth it for the battery storage if you can fill the thing in the 4 hours you get at the cheaper rates?

Couple that with solar panels to keep it topped up during the day and it might be worth while.

I'm guessing the prices of these things are going to rocket as demand for them picks up too.

Otopus said I couldnt go on go without proof of owning an EV, I am curious what the day rates are as the tariff is not subject to the cap.

The idea of a battery that has the capacity to last all day and be charged during EV hours is mouthwatering if I can get on the tariff, but I guess long extensions to power everything in home, or one battery for each room.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

If the Install was so non compliant that it requires moving it's usually done for free, but that is dependant on transporter in your case that's SGN. I've had very little contact with SGN over the years but fairly sure they would move it for a minimal cost to yourself as it's a safety issue.

I looked into every option, but they were adamant that I had to pay for it all. Including any works to put anything right after they completed the base works/connection which I also was expected to pay for.

 

[SDK^]

Otopus said I couldnt go on go without proof of owning an EV, I am curious what the day rates are as the tariff is not subject to the cap.

The idea of a battery that has the capacity to last all day and be charged during EV hours is mouthwatering if I can get on the tariff, but I guess long extensions to power everything in home, or one battery for each room.

I joined Octopus Go, fixed for a year, as a new customer in March this year - these are the rates, standing charge is the 25.08p. [Might be higher now]

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I have no idea why it didn't spread more widely, I guess like yourself people didnt look that hard, and I only knew about it specifically when I searched octopus.
I don't think it came up on price comparisons which is where most people went for their deals. So I am not surprised it wasn't more widely known, if the sum total of your annual search was fire up a price comparison and click the top entry with no further effort.
It was very innovative in regards pricing.

Innovation is change. People like, often need, to budget.
The mechanism for working out the pricing and timing of the DDs is designed to stop you going into arrears. You can't actually switch most of the time when your in arrears, did you know that?

I agree somewhat on the meters being thrown out that were perfectly good. But your they may die faster bit just seems to want to find a negative, yet again, common theme. They could just as likely last longer...

Im not sure if you are aware but there is an energy cost crisis happening. Loads of people I know are starting to pay LOTS of attention to the displays now, setting daily budgets etc. They are simply a tool, you wont gain anything individually if you dont modify behaviour, they are one tool available to assist you in doing so.

The benefits for individuals will be less about them directly and more about us all overall. Its a bit like covid testing where the individual was kind of irrelevant, but they needed lots of people to test to see the trends etc
A lot of the current benefit of smart meters is that, its part of the grid strategy, they need to know things like useage patterns and how they can be influenced (like the test done to refund people who used less energy in set windows)
As said previously its no expense to you, wish people would actually pay attention and / or not dream stuff up.

Your not convinced by agile, I get it, you cant think outside the box enough to imagine a simple situation, like pensioners at home all day, who should be able to move most of their heavy energy outside the window that costs more than standard methods to the majority of the day when its cheaper.
Right now its not really very good, when I looked a couple of years ago, about 21 out of the 24 hours a day was lower than standard, but the three or so hours were significantly more like double the unit cost.
I didnt have good enough data available, but it looked like it would be around cost neutral for us at that point, with the ability by not switching the dishwasher on for example between 5-8 to probably make a big diff.
There were times it was low pennies a unit, or even negative (pretty infrequently), literally being paid to use energy (turn everything on asap!) But really people who have a decent base load, running fish tanks, ponds, servers, crypto mining, maybe working shifts etc etc etc all could potentially have benefitted. But it came with some risk, the pricing was volatile, and as said many times, a LOT of people like to budget their energy and not have it vary by season, cold snap etc